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  • I think our Anything Muppet pages need a little cleaning up in the way of what characters are listed on the pattern pages, specifically nameless ones. I don't see the merit in listing the likes "Nickmatic Guitarist," for whom we don't have a page for, with no given name or performer. There's plenty other examples on the pages of named characters, both well-known and one-timers, that I'm fine with excluding ones who don't fit that criteria. I know we're a Wiki and lists are our thing, but I think we can cut down the AM pages a little without anyone minding.

    Agreed?

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    • I'm fine with dumping characters who don't have names/never spoke (I know I added a couple of those, and to be honest now I kind of of question why, but it's in the past). 

      If it's something like "Fat Cat performer" with the blank-faced Anything Muppets whom we least know performed them.... I guess we could keep those? But if everyone else feels the need to dump those as well, by all means, go ahead.  

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    • I think originally some of those (like the blank Fat Blue and animal variants from the "Miss Muffet" skit) were there to show off the pattern itself a little more. But yeah, it got carried away (we've done clean-up now and them over the years but then users add new ones).

      Definitely could use some culling. At one point I thought we had a "Harvey Kneeslapper's victim" entry (nameless but did appear multiple times), but now it's "Harvey Kneeslapper's mailman victim" (used only once) and stuff like that.

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    • I disagree. All of them should stay.

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    • Duke Remington wrote: I disagree. All of them should stay.

      Do you have any rational for keeping them?

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    • I agree. We don't really need a page for one-time characters like Lucy Jones.

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    • I meant listings in the galleries, not removing actual articles.

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    • Oscarfan wrote: I meant listings in the galleries, not removing actual articles.

      Well what's wrong with that? :)

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    • I like the articles for one time characters, that said since Lucy and Helen Happy are basically Betty Lou with a different name, they probably don't need to be listed on the page.

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    • I think they should all stay. I'm with Duke Remington on this one.

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    • Okay, but why?

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    • I think there needs to be a good argument for keeping nameless one-shot characters in the pattern page galleries (especially since that so easily adds clutter and encourages more of the same since there are plenty of background Anything Muppets with no names or often voices that could be stuck there). We can never actually include every single Anything Muppet bit or crowd character in the galleries, so if completeness is the rationale for keeping those entries, it could never be that complete anyway.

      If one could argue that the character was significant (a precursor to a major character, say) or it shows an unusual use of the pattern, that might make sense on a case by case basis. We've limited other galleries for similar reasons before (and will again, as needed).

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    • Regarding unsual patterns... I would say the "Fat Cat" muppets should definitely stay then (semi-blank muppets in shades).

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    • I agree with Andrew's point on keeping significant characters and unusual uses of the puppet. I definitely think that generic one-shots like "Weather Man in Newsflash skit" that either redirect or don't have a page can be excluded from the galleries.

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    • Okay, that seems like a consensus for me, even with the opposition not stating why they oppose. I'll go ahead and start taking things out.

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    • Jbrangwynne53 wrote:
      I agree with Andrew's point on keeping significant characters and unusual uses of the puppet. I definitely think that generic one-shots like "Weather Man in Newsflash skit" that either redirect or don't have a page can be excluded from the galleries.

      Ditto on that, but can "generic one-shots" also fall under the category of named characters who we know actually spoke like "Nelson", "Jeneatte", "Professor Goldfinch", "Lefty" (the scaredy blue muppet), "Benny" (you know who I'm talking about here), etc?

      I'm fine with that, too. I just choose to bring it up so it doesn't end up becoming a mis-understanding in the future. (Better safe than sorry, right?). 

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    • Right now, I think as long as they have a character page to link back to, that's fine. It's the unnamed or things like nameless background band members that need examination.

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    • I think an opposing rationale is that it's a good idea to list every occurance and variant of an Anything Muppet style for reference. That said, this assumes that a) their presence is actually substantial and b) they're that unique of variants to the pre-existing type that other Muppets exemplify more prominently.

      I think this should extend to things like animals, creature types (e.g. monsters), humans, and positions (e.g. Nobility) if not taken care of already.

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    • Animals have been kept (as have the blank or nearly blank pattern examples), and the other ones you mention haven't applied , with the exception of the king from "The King and the Fireman" (which I don't think is a real loss).

      So far, the only ones I'd suggest re-adding would be the two Alphabeats, since they appeared several times (even if their voices were switched) and were even depicted in storybooks (as opposed to the member of Little Jerry and the Monotones, where name and voice varied so it was never sure which was which). It definitely looks a lot cleaner (and thanks for fixing alphabetization and other issues along the way).

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    • I'd be willing to let the Alphabets slide. More notable than essentially every member of the Beetles that were listed.

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    • Yeah, if we listed the Beetles at all, it would be a single image on the Green and Lavender pages (since which ones were which varied, but otherwise they looked pretty much identical and only functioned as a group character).

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    • Also disagree. Nameless "Fat Blue" AMs go in the gallery as a result of us not wanting to have pages for each of them.

      If we're bugged by the weightiness of those galleries because of the addition of the nameless AMs, I propose separate galleries on each AM pattern page: one gallery for named AMs with links to their articles, and another gallery for those nameless.

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    • I hadn't considered that. I guess I could go for two separate galleries.

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    • I made an edit to Fat Blue to see how it looks.

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    • Looking at Scott's edit, I think it looks pretty cool.

      I re-consider my thoughts - I think having seperate sections is a neat idea. 

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    • Wow, I need to thank Scott for enumerating my thoughts in a way I couldn't myself.

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    • So...... at this point, are re-adding the unnamed/background characters to "other" sections in the AM categories yay or nay?

      If it's the former, I'd be more than happy to put them all back in properly because some I'd sure hate to see go (the only ones I don't care for re-adding are the beetles members because they all look the same). 

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    • I'm fine with it. If you want to go ahead and put them back, be my guest.

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    • Sounds like a plan, I'll get right on it. 

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    • A FANDOM user
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