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  • Our article for Matt Vogel currently includes a long list of individual episodes and appearances where Vogel performed Big Bird to Carroll Spinney's vocals. It strikes me a bit odd as we typically don't track every individual instance of "puppeteered but didn't voice" performances for a character (like most of Frank Oz's characters in the '90s).

    Many of the performances on the list are also unsourced - possibly based solely on the puppet used, interactions with Oscar, or small performance mannerisms. While it's likely that most of the performances listed weren't Spinney in the puppet, that's not always conclusive that Vogel was the one inside puppeteering to Spinney's vocals (Noel Macneal, Peter Linz and others have been known to fill in too). Plus I'm sure there are many times Vogel performed the bird to Spinney's vocals that we're missing simply because puppetry-tracking is a lot harder than voice-chasing. If we're going to list all the individual times Vogel puppeteered Big Bird to Spinney's vocals, we might as well add a list to all the times he puppeteered The Count to Jerry Nelson's vocals there too.

    I started Sandbox:Caroll Spinney character transitions to try to track the times where Vogel has fully performed (i.e. provided the voice for) the character (along with giving us a place to track Eric Jacobson's growing list of vocal performances as Oscar).

    Thoughts?

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    • I'm for tracking these. I'm not sure though how it's clear when he's just voicing vs when he's puppeteering and voicing vs when he's puppeteering but Caroll's voicing.

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    • I had thought that section of the Matt Vogel page would work better as a separate page anyway, since there's so many instances of Vogel puppeteering/voicing the Bird over the course of 15+ years.

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    • Yeah, I would be in favor of moving the list of Big Bird performances out of Vogel's page with the numerous instances he's done. His role as understudy is basically already covered in the intro and credits section, and with the list growing recently, I don't think having the BB performances on a separate page would be a bad move.

      Many of the performances on the list are also unsourced - possibly based solely on the puppet used, interactions with Oscar, or small performance mannerisms.

      Some of the earlier performances (namely a few Season 30 and 31 episodes) were based on my observations, and because I have those episodes, I could see/hear if Vogel was puppeteering Big Bird in those eps. But if that's not reliable enough, I'm not sure what to say.

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    • I think a lot of the list stems from the fact that Matt has a separate version of Big Bird, the physical puppet. So, whenever that's used, it's inferred that it's Matt, when it could be anybody unless we hear the voice.

      I think yes, move it. Just like the stuff with Ryan as Elmo or Billy as Ernie.

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    • Like we saw with Ernie's switch from Steve Whitmire to Billy Barkhurst and Elmo's switch from Kevin Clash to Ryan Dillon, it's nice to be able to track every minor appearance of the new performer; but I don't think we should be cluttering up the character and/or performer pages with an ever-growing laundry list of each little social media video, TV guest spot, or other minor bit when Spinney isn't the voice of Big Bird and/or Oscar.

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    • Since Caroll seems to be not doing the voices anymore, do you think it's time to take this article out of the sandbox?

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    • A FANDOM user
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