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The CamelCase title

When we write the name of the series on the wiki we've use they stylized "The StoryTeller" (with a capital T) rather than "The Storyteller." Is there a reason for this?

Everywhere I've seen the title written/typed (, the DVD cases, press releases, etc.) it is written simply as "The Storyteller." I can't find any official sources that use "The StoryTeller." The only source for the capital "T" that I can find is the stylized title card / logo (although it should be pointed out all of the letters in the logo are capitalized; sure the T is taller, but the R at the end is also slightly bigger as is the first T too).

If we're going soley based off the title card it should be written as "Jim Henson's THE STORYTELLER" (okay, that's silly). But is there a reason we don't just use "The Storyteller?" Are there any sources besides the logo for the capitalized T? -- Brad D. (talk) 15:12, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Y'know, that's a very good question. I think we named it based on the title card and the Jim Henson's The StoryTeller (book) cover -- although technically that says Story-Teller. :) I agree that all of our other sources seem to say "Storyteller". I'm cool with updating to Storyteller -- I'd check with a couple other people first, just because it would mean changing quite a few pages and categories. -- Danny @fandom (talk) 18:36, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
I could go either way. I consider the book a useful source and obviously the new graphic novel is using the same style for the title (for the record, many print sources, official and otherwise, used "The Story Teller," taking the stylization to indicate a space; this included the Emmy people when "Hans My Hedgehog" was nominated). Plus I think it makes it a lot easier when we're making distinctions on disambiguation. On the other hand, it really *is* the only case where we bother with how the title font looks (as opposed to spelling and wording and such). So I can understand the reason for changing it, but it would mean a lot of work. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:47, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
Oh, and Brad, re the medium T and big R, check out the VHS covers. Those which didn't exactly copy the title fonts actually consistently used "StoryTeller," with everything else in lower case (as seen here, so I consider that a source in favor. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:49, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
Oh, good point w/ the VHS cover. -- Danny @fandom (talk) 20:01, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

So -- how do we want to make this decision? We have a few cases where it's shown as The StoryTeller -- the title card/logo (sort of), the book (sort of) and the VHS cover. We have some where it's shown as The Storyteller --, IMDB, Amazon.

In general, we go with the title card for stuff like this, but I think Brad's point is well taken that the title card is a little unclear here. Obviously, the difference between the site and the VHS cover show that official sources differ. There are a couple other sources we could consult -- Jim Henson: The Works and No Strings Attached. I'm also a little curious about promotional articles about the show circa when it was made, just to see if we can figure out the producers' original intent. So maybe we'll find a couple more sources and make a decision from there? -- Danny @fandom (talk) 19:19, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah. We haven't used the "Stump" tag in awhile, but at the least, this seems like a "pending research" case, where as it stands, it's difficult to make a decision one way or the other. A useful source, if they don't just copy the logo, would be to find any TV Guide promo ads (either before Jim Henson Hour or before "Hans My Hedgehog," which was the first to air). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:03, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I'll look tonight when I get home. We're not stumped yet. :) -- Danny @fandom (talk) 21:14, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I have No Strings Attached and they use The Storyteller. They also use "The Storyteller's Dog," which I find less awkward than "Dog (The StoryTeller) but that's me. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:00, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
We named the page as such because we decided early on that (with the exception of all the "Jim Henson's") we would use a production's title card as the top-most authority to trump any other conflicting sources. —Scott (contact) 22:15, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
I understand that we've gone with title cards as the top authority, but I don't think the taller "T" in the title card is nessesarily inteded to be capitalized (I mean, all the letters are capitals). We don't use MuppetS TonighT, DogCity, ALIeNS in the Family, THE MUPPETS, Secret Life of TOYS, or play with me sesame just because that's how font in the logo stylistically capitalizes, spaces, or sizes things. I think collecting more sources (especially some from the time of production/airing) could help. -- Brad D. (talk) 22:33, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
Jim henson show promo slick 3

Okay, I looked at a couple sources. Jim Henson: The Works says The Storyteller. I also have this promo slick for The Jim Henson Hour. It was made before they finalized the title, so it actually says The Jim Henson Show on it. :) The promo material says The Storyteller too.

So this does feel to me like a lot of evidence that the production team wrote the title as "The Storyteller", and then that's reflected in reputable sources like, The Works and No Strings Attached, as well as IMDB and Amazon.

Scott is right when he says that we tend to favor the title card over any other source, but I think Brad makes a good point that the capital T in the title card may just be a design flourish that isn't reflected when the title is written down. The obvious comparison is The Monster at the End of This Book, which is written on the cover as the MONSTER at the end of this Book. I'm favoring a change to "The Storyteller" if other people are. -- Danny @fandom (talk) 00:22, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, while IMDb doesn't factor for much in my view (their unreliability extends to titles too, like deciding that a movie compilation made in English but only distributed in Germany should for some reason be listed under a Spanish title), we trust the other sources and taken together that's a fair amount of evidence. I also found that someone had scanned 1988 newspaper article, pre Jim Henson Hour but after the first standalone special. It uses The Storyteller throughout (although to be fair, the article writer also mentions "Labyrinthe" and claims Jim Henson built Muppets for The Electric Company). Though I admit I like the look of The StoryTeller, right now we have three pieces of evidence in favor of that, the title card design, the VHS covers for both StoryTeller and Greek Myths (which use lowercasing for every letter save the two Ts and the S, so it's clearly not a "we can't tell because they're all capitals" case), and the book which uses a dash. And actually that, plus the Emmy submission and other sources, almost suggest that to Anthony Minghella who wrote the book, the title may have been The Story Teller (since it's listed that way in several of his bios and such). But there's more evidence for retitling and to me that ad slick seems like the topper. So I'd be fine with a move. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:50, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
So it sounds like there's agreement to move to "The Storyteller." Now such a decision would affect other pages/categories (which I've listed below). -- Brad D. (talk) 15:15, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

Affected page/category titles

Page titles (12):

Categories (9):


I question the recent inclusion of The StoryTeller in the new Jim Henson Hour Sketches category. It strikes me as more useful for cataloguing the sketch elements of the first half, which was often sketch driven, both recurring elements and one-shots (alien beauty pageant, the wildlife documentary with Chris Langham as a barbecuing dad, etc.) StoryTeller is a seperate sub-series which occasionally aired on the show, not a "sketch," any more than "Monster Maker" or "Dog City" would be considered sketches. The series was an anthology, and only elements in the Muppet segments should be considered sketches, to my mind. Andrew Leal (talk) 07:43, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should change the Category name to MuppeTelevision sketches. -- Peter (talk) 13:20, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I debated over including this as a Jim Henson Hour sketch, because it's not a segment in the way that a short skit on a variety show would be, but The StoryTeller was included in many episodes of the show. If it get's changed to "MuppeTelevision Sketches", then I guess MuppeTelevision would need to be taken out of the category as well. --Minor muppetz 14:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
The StoryTeller predates The Jim Henson Hour anyway, so I figure it's not eligible.
But since the topic has been brought up, changing the category name to MuppeTelevision sketches feels like a good idea to me. I would do the same thing with the Jim Henson Hour characters category. -- Scott (talk) 14:41, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
What about characters like Dog or Ultragorgon, though, where there's really only one character from a Jim Henson Hour special worth creating a page for? Though now there's creatures, so at least the latter wouldn't be uncategorized. Andrew Leal (talk) 15:07, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
I think characters from Lighthouse Island, Monster Maker, Song of the Cloud Forest and Living with Dinosaurs should be in Jim Henson Hour Characters and we should have a separate category for MuppeTelevision characters. -- Scott (talk) 15:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Aha! That makes sense. Okay, I follow now. Blame it on travel lag from being cooped up in an old Ford for 18 hours. Andrew Leal (talk) 15:23, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I am confused


Hungry are we?!

From Schenectady Gazette - Apr 15, 1988. Picture is from "Jim Henson Presents" show. Full article can be found on google

I'm not sure how this fits with your article here, and the newspaper is from 1988. So I'll leave it here for a admin or user to add as they see fit.  Devilmanozzy (Talk Page)  15:24, October 17, 2012 (UTC)