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Talk:The Muppet Christmas Carol

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Deleted footage

I have a copy of the full edit of the "Marley and Marley" from a syndicated airing of the movie. The complete song is there, with additional dialogue from Scrooge and the cut verse. Does this appear in any version on DVD?

Here's the missing footage:
  • Scrooge asks why the ghosts are there, leading to the Marleys' opening dialogue before the song.
  • Before the cut verse, Scrooge pleads, "Please, can't we go back to being funny?" This is followed by Waldorf and Statler's call of "Funny? Funny?!", which is followed by the final verse. After this, the scene resumes to the discussion of the Marleys' chains. -- MuppetDude 19:03, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Cite: "Production Notes" sources

I just realized how much of the "Production Notes" was apparently just copied from Wikipedia, in the early days of Muppet Wiki. Some of it is clearly redundant, some of it (like the bit about being a "truer" adaptation) could use better sourcing so it sounds less POV, and some is *probably* accurate but still needs citation. Example: "Notably, several pivotal roles -- in particular, the three Christmas Spirits -- were portrayed by specially-created Muppet characters. It was at one time considered that well-known Muppets would be cast in these roles (Piggy, Scooter, and Gonzo, specifically) before it was decided that it would detract from the ominous effect the spirits would need to convey." That *sounds* credible, but what's the source? Audio commentary? Interview? The special Muppet Magazine issue? The green screen paragraph, which as it stands doesn't come across as especially Muppet relevant, also needs work. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:05, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Audio commentary. I believe the green screen thing came from the commentary too. Chunk 15:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, they are all pretty much noted on in the commentary or the DVD documentary. But some clean up and quotes to back them up would be nice. -- Brad D. (talk) 18:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
That's my point. Actually, Scott and I talked a bit awhile back about implementing a discreet "Source" tag for cases like this. I'll check the audio commentary later on, but I don't have access to the DVD. We've gradually developed a nice collective system of checks and balances on these things, and in general, it's useful to be aware of these gaps, mostly dating from the early days of the Wiki. At this point, I don't think it's sufficient in cases like this to just make a statement without either a direct quotation or clear citation, and in the case of the Ghosts, a clearer correlation of established Muppet to role would also be useful. Checking the history, it seems most of the Production Notes were just borrowed from Wikipedia, and could all use sourcing and some re-writing (the opening bit about the film being one of the "truest" adaptations reeks of POV; more explicit discussion of what was retained, and the most significant alterations like Jacob and Robert Marley, would be a worthwhile replacement). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:15, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Aaand now we do have a cite tag, which I've added to the end of both paragraphs. Whenever anyone is able to double check and add quotes/clear citation (and whether the info comes from the audio commentary or documentary), the tags can be removed.


Cut Songs

Wikipedia's article claims that:

"Two other songs were written but cut from the film; "Room In Your Heart", performed by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew & Beaker, and "Chairman of the Board", performed by Sam the Eagle. After a few weeks of release, Walt Disney Pictures sent theaters prints of the film with the two songs cut out, as they were slowing down the movie and did not affect the plot. These scenes were not put back in for the video and DVD releases, but both songs appear on the motion picture soundtrack released by Jim Henson Records."

I was under the impression they were not only never a part of the film, but that they were never filmed to begin with (you would think that two cut muscial numbers would have been a marketing team's dream bonus feature for the DVDs, or at least worth a mention in the audio commentary). Were these filmed, and were they released to theaters and recalled weeks later? Was there another edit of the film we didn't know about? Or is Wikipedia off their rocker? -- Brad D. (talk) 01:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm inclined to think Wikipedia is nuts, not only because that makes *three* cut songs which made it into the release and were cut only *after* a certain amount of time, but because the soundtrack is such, and the songs mere character solos, that they feel more like they were recorded specifically for that. It's not impossible that they were included in early *drafts*, but I doubt they were included. Unless we get a reliable source that they were actually filmed, I say forget it. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:00, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
The information is incorrect and I've updated the Wikipedia article. According to Karen Falk, the songs were cut from the script before filming even began. — Scott (talk) 03:38, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
That's what I thought...oh, those crazy Wikipedians, they mess with us time after time. At least we now have a source to put this rumor to bed (take that Wikipedia, IMDb, Muppet Central forum debates, and all the other loonies that assert they saw them in theaters!) -- Brad D. (talk) 03:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, it's one of those fake, made-up memories. I have one of of an exterior shot of Grover's Apartment from across the street in Eight Super Sesame Street Stories. But looking at the tape now, it's easy to prove that it never happened. Oh, our silly brains.. — Scott (talk) 04:07, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Yup. I got the soundtrack before the movie opened, and "Room in Your Heart" was my favorite song. I was excited during the Bunsen and Beaker scene, waiting for them to sing, and I was disappointed when the scene ended without a song. -- Danny (talk) 10:53, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

When Love is Gone

"When Love is Gone was cut out of the original 1992 theatrical release as Brian Henson thought it would slow down the film a bit but put it back in for the video release since people could skip it that way." We know he and/or the studio wanted the song cut for pacing reasons, but has Brian said that he put it back in on video because people can skip it if they want? -- Ozzel 07:32, 24 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I've never heard that they added it because people could skip it. The song was originally planned to be part of the film, however when film makers found that the test audiences (mainly family viewers with younger children) become restless and bored during the song. They felt the song slowed the film down, and was not “fun” nor Muppet-focused. The song was seen as slow and boring. Plus the film was already pushing the limits of many younger viewers’ attention spans in the test screenings. The producers decided to cut the song from the theatrical release of the film. When the film was released in the home-viewing format (video & TV airings) the song was re-included. Brian Henson felt the song was important, and regretted having to cut it from the film to begin with. He felt that the in the home viewing setting that audiences would be more excepting, understanding and appreciative of its inclusion. At home it is not as much of a problem if a 6-year-old get a little restless during a “boring” song in the film. Since Henson mourned cutting the song from the theatrical edit, he got them to add it back in to the film. It was not because you could skip it, it was because it was an important song and the home viewing environment could handel it; whereas in theaters time is a big issue to younger audiences, and kid's attentions spans and interests can be problimatic. -- GregJames 09:18, 24 Dec 2005 (UTC)
Since Greg's explanation has been put in, I deleted the now-redundant final paragraph that was originally at the bottom. -- TomH 02:44, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)
It should be noted that this song is only available on the Pan-and-Scan version of the film on the Kermit's 50th Anniversary DVD from 2005. TheDisneyBuff1993 03:53, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
Just rented the movie from iTunes and the song isn't in that version. Galenfott 04:10, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

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