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After Las Vegas, before Sullivan...
Where did the clips come from?
Im trying to work out where these screengrabs came from. Im trying to find more Rowlf on Jimmy Dean clips to add to the wiki, I think i may have found some. Could you cite in he table BELOW where the following came from please? -- Warrick
- The World of Jim Henson has clips from the boxing and Lassie sketches (though I don't think that still image from the Lassie one was shown in the documentary). --Minor muppetz 13:36, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
- I've just added the April 2, 1964 appearance! - Warrick
- I've also just added another 1964 (or so i think) appearance, I've named it Rowlf's Vacation. I bought it online a few years ago. I tried to match it to the list below, but couldnt figure out if it was one of them. -- Warrick
| Swinging on a Star||November 21, 1963||The Best of the Jimmy Dean Show DVD Vol 1.|
| Song and Dance Man||December 5, 1963||The Best of the Jimmy Dean Show Vol 1.|
| Lassie's Visit||December 26, 1963||I have managed to find this - Rowlf doesnt wear a collar and tie|
|You're Just in Love||1963||Does anyone own this sketch?|
|Rowlf's Nephew||January 8, 1964||Does anyone own this sketch?|
| Jazz||January 16, 1964||The Best of the Jimmy Dean Show Vol 2.|
| Kitten||March 19, 1964||the song on the wiki page says "Lets Be Buddies", whereas the song sung on The Best of the Jimmy Dean Show Vol 2 is called "I'll Always Be a Buddy to You". Do we think this is the same song?|
| Rowlf Learns Karate||1964||Online - courtsey of the Museum of Broadcast Communications.|
|Rowlf Takes Up Boxing||November 19, 1965||Does anyone own this sketch?|
The Best of the Jimmy Dean Show
If anyone has the The Best of the Jimmy Dean Show DVD in hand and could add a description and possibily an image to the sketch listing for each of the sketches that would be swell. -- Brad D. (talk) 01:59, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
- I added them. There's no dates given on the DVD, but I listed them both as 1963. In both sketches on the DVD, Rowlf is begging Jimmy to book Lassie as a guest. She appeared on the show in December 1963, so obviously those two sketches took place earlier in the year. -- Danny (talk) 03:04, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
References in A Celebration of 30 Years?
I don't have a copy to refer to (it's part of the large handful of productions I don't have) but I seem to recall some kind of reference or alusion by Rowlf to The Jimmy Dean Show in The Muppets: A Celebration of 30 Years (similar to his bit in Sex & Violence)... or am I just going crazy? If there is such a reference by Rowlf could someone please share it so it can be added with the others. Also were there any clips from The Jimmy Dean Show in the special, and if so, any information/pictures worth adding? Thanks. -- Brad D. (talk) 18:31, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- I can't believe that nobody has responded to this yet, but yes, the special does have a clip from the show. The clip features Jimmy Dean as a doctor, squeacing some tube-like thing which is in Rowlf's mouth. Jimmy looks at instructions while squeazing it, and eventually Rowlf inflates, or something like that, and the inside of Rowlf explodes. Jimmy asks, "What the heck happened?", and Rowlf says, "Myt belly button blew up". --Minor muppetz 04:42, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Sketch Listing Validity
Many of the sketches in the listing have just been shuffled along as the page evolved, I got to wondering who added them in the first place and where the titles/descriptions came from. I looked and they were added back in December by an anonymous user (they even all had dates, some of which I know were incorrect, however the same user removed the dates a few edits later) . Are these titles valid? I personally only know for sure that 5 of the ones listed are real (and 3 of which were added with sources and information to back them up months after this anon's list was posted). I would hate to see the page strip this page down to 5-6 sketches, but I would also hate to see us promoting a list that isn't true. Can anyone back up these sketch descriptions? Should we take them off? Can anyone get us a better listing (I know MTR has a whole slue of these)? Here are the ones I question:
- Air Force Recruiter
- Carnegie Hall
- Dear Abby/Kitten
- Fur Coat
- I Hear Singing
- Merry Little Christmas
- The Mets
- Rowlf for President
- Rowlf's Flu
- Song and Dance Man
- Swing on a Star
- Then I'll Be Happy
- Trombone and Piano
- No Business Like Show Business"
- It's always a bear when info turns out to have come from an anon. I keep wondering about the "Dear Abby/Kitten" one. The "Dear Abby" part doesn't ring a bell, but it's mildly possible it was part of the sketch with Puff, which culminated in the song "You're Just in Love," already listed. And yeah, MT&R has a bunch. In general, I'm sort of inclined to hold off removing any until Danny or someone gets a chance to check notes, or see the actual episodes (i.e., at the very least, a few days or a week or so). None of them seem suspicious, and while they do need verification, they also all sound very plausible, if vague of course. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- I took them out. If someone has information to back them up they can be readded. Having 16 questionable titles with no further information or details doesn't help the article out. So if any one comes across information on other sketches (or the ones parked here) they can be added to the list, but just listing some vague and unsourced titles with no further information doesn't help much (especially since they are hard for others to verify or even know which particular sketch the title is referring to). We need more than just a one or two word description and/or we need a source to back it up. -- Brad D. (talk) 22:59, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- I think it was me who added those titles - i'm sure that Karen Falk sent me a list like this... Warrick 13:27, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
If you have access to episodes or other resources and can add descriptions or images, please do so. This page needs some work to get good. Also the main text should be expanded to describe Rowlf's/Henson's role a bit more. -- Brad D. (talk) 02:36, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- We decided not to do images in the table, so we're good there. If I'm not mistaken, the text has been expanded regarding Henson/Rowlf. That just leaves the sketch descriptions which I'm not sure require immediate attention so much as it's one of those things that we'll eventually get around to when the information becomes available. — Scott (talk) 21:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Should this count as a Muppet TV Show? There's no category definition, but I'd always figured it was a show which not only had Muppets, but was itself produced by Henson and/or CTW. Regular though Rowlf was, the series wasn't produced as a "Muppet" series. If we're redefining the category, then Our Place and Saturday Night Live should be added. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:59, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
- For the reasons you said, this wasn't a Henson production. Rowlf had a regular spot on another company's show. If we add this and Our Place and SNL, we open up the door for Mike Douglas and Ed Sullivan. — Scott (talk) 04:34, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
- I see your point. But I see "TV Appearance" more as a "guest spots". In this case (and with Gorch) they Muppets weren't guests - they were regulars. I just hate seeing "Jimmy Dean" being on the same level with "Jimmy Kimmel". The role of Henson and the Muppets were quite different here. Rowlf was in every episode and Henson (and pals) were on the cast/crew of the show. They weren't guests stars like they were on Ed Sullivan, Mr. Rogers, The Tonight Show or Cosby Show. I understand it wasn't produced by Henson, but it was a TV that the Muppets were part of the regular cast. I wouldn't call Rowlf's role here just an appearance, it was a full time regular TV show. Also Henson (or maybe Disney now) has ownership and control of the Muppet parts. Well, The Junior Morning Show and The Land of Gorch should be taken out then of Muppet TV Shows if being produced by Henson is the rule, as Henson didn't produce them. Maybe we need a new category for the non-Henson shows that the Muppets were on the full time cast of and were on a higher level than just an guest appearance. -- Brad D. (talk) 04:55, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
- You may have a point on Junior Good Morning Show (our current description of it and the show history in general seems fuzzy), but not Land of Gorch, though Shows is awkward since its not a show in itself. But we're not trying to imply that Saturday Night Live is a "Muppet TV show." "Muppet TV Show" doesn't just imply that a Muppet was on as a regular segment, but that the series involved significant Muppet creative content and control, basically was produced as a "Muppet Show" (by that definition, CityKids is also a bit iffy, actually, but it generally seemed that Jim Henson Productions had a hand in it). "Appearances" doesn't have to just mean guest spots, though most of it is, but any addition of Muppet content as an added element to a series. Yeah, this is more Muppet heavy than Jimmy Kimmel, but so for that matter is The Rosie O'Donnell Show. I don't know if a seperate category is needed. If you want to list those where the Muppets were billed as regulars, or front-end them at the top, that might work. But a seperate category for what would probably be at most 5, 6 shows *seems* silly. So I dunno. Regardless of what's done to categorize these, though, The Jimmy Dean Show as a collective entity is *not* a Muppet show, and as I said, Junior Morning Show and CityKids could probably bear some looking into. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:37, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
- I think we should have a different category for (non-Henson) shows where the Muppets are listed as part of the regular/recurring cast. That would include The Jimmy Dean Show, The Junior Morning Show, SNL, Afternoon with Inga, Our Place and probably Donna's Day. As a reader, I would be interested in seeing those shows grouped together -- it would encourage me to browse and read more about them. I think those shows get lost in the TV Appearances category.
- I don't know why this is being made so complicated. Rowlf made several TV Appearances on The Jimmy Dean Show. Why does it deserve a whole new category just because he was in the credits of the episodes he appeared in? Maybe if someone explained the distinction more clearly to me, I'd understand. But as far as I can see, that's the only one. — Scott (talk) 22:24, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, in this case (and SNL too), although Jim Henson did not produce the show, Henson was a regular and standing cast member – not a guest. It wasn't a guest appearance, it was a regular role. You wouldn't say Ed McMahon made several TV appearances on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, Ed was a regular, he wasn't the star but he was part of the show. Rowlf might not have been the star but he was a fixed part of the show (I even think Jim was contracted as such; not on a show-to-show basis). Is Sesame Street a TV appearance or a TV show to Kermit? We say its a Kermit TV show (unlike Big Bird on The Muppet Show which was an apperance). Is Jimmy Dean a TV appearance or a TV show to Rowlf? I say it was a regular TV show to him, just like Kermit on Sesame (except Jim wasn't a producer/creator of the program). It's a Muppet's show too, it just wasn't Jim's show too. Saturday Night Live is similar, you wouldn't list Chevy Chase as making "TV appearances" in the first season of SNL, he was a cast member so were the Muppets. These two TV shows (and some others mentioned above) were TV shows of the Muppets (even though they weren't produced by Henson and the Muppets weren't the #1 act every show). This isn't like Elmo constantly being on the Rosie O'Donnell Show, Rowlf wasn't just a frequent guest – he was a cast member and it was his show too. -- Brad D. (talk) 16:15, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- I went ahead and removed the Muppet TV Show tag. Whatever is decided, it's misleading to imply that The Jimmy Dean Show is a Muppet Show, as opposed to a show with a Muppet in it. Also, it's worth looking into whether Rowlf was in fact in every episode. One could be a "regular" in the 60s without necessarily being in every show. Regardless, we don't classify Sesame Street as a Muppet TV Show merely because Kermit sometimes appeared, but because the series was essentially a co-production from the beginning between the pedagogical folks at CTW and their contractors *and* The Muppets, with the Muppets as the dominant factor. We don't define one-shot specials as being "Muppet Specials" just because the Muppets appeared in them, even if prominently; Miss Piggy and Gonzo dominate Disneyland's 35th Anniversary Celebration to the same extent that Rowlf does in his Jimmy Dean scenes, but that doesn't make it a Muppet special (as I said, CityKids is probably iffy on that score, but it was identified in credits as a Henson/City Kids co-production, regardless of how much Muppets were there, so that makes it a legitimate Muppet series).
A secondary category or list to classify Jimmy Dean, SNL, etc.? I'm fine with that. But it doesn't make sense to me to class the whole show as a "Muppet TV Series." That implies a larger degree of Muppet content and creative control than actually existed, especially in the well-documented case of SNL. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 16:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Online Video Clip
I just found this... a full episode of the show online curtsey of the Museum of Broadcast Communications -- and good ol' Rowlf is there. If someone knows how to get screen-grabs from it feel free to (I can't). It's quite cool. -- Brad D. (talk) 03:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Aghh, they have it set up so you can't "back-door" your way into the data base with direct links (due to a guest validation script when you enter, otherwise you need a password). So go here and click on "search the archives"; search for "Jimmy Dean Show" (it should be the second result on the list) and then go to show page and play the proxy located on the right column. If you can get it they have some other cool stuff (first episode of Sesame Street, a full episodes of Muppet Babies and the Muppet Show, and more!) Good luck. -- Brad D. (talk) 03:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)