Talk:The Great Muppet Caper

"Night Life" instrumental

I saw a special 35mm screening of TGMC in SF a month ago, and during "Night Life" I clearly noticed there were no vocals! This struck me as odd, since I hadn't seen it in a long time, and it led me to assume that the vocals were only on the soundtrack LP (which I was more familiar with). I'm pretty sure there wasn't anything wrong with the sound system. Has anyone else seen it this way? --MuppetVJ 02:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I have read at The Internet Movie Database that changes were made to the soundtrack when this movie was released on video in 1993. However, it didn't specify the changes, nor was it clear whether it was referring to the soundtrack as heard in the movie or the rereleased audio soundtrack (this info was in the trivia section, not the alternate versions section). I used to have a copy of this movie that was tapped off a TV broadcast, and I can't really remember if they were singing in this version (there were a few cuts in this broadcast). This copy broke before I got the internet, where I was surprised when I learned that the band sang a song, with lyrics, during this sequence. I don't know if I just didn't notice Dr. Teeth singing until I got this movie on DVD or if I had seen it with the vocals cut (I remember seeing the bus moving during this scene back then, and I remember the part where Miss Piggy asks Kermit if the people on his bus are his friends). --Minor muppetz 00:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I recently listened to an episode of The MuppetCast, where somebody discusses audio differences between the original video release and later video releases. It was mentioned that on the original CBS/Fox release, "Night Life" was instruemntal, but on the 1993 and 1999 releases, Dr. Teeth actually sang. I can't remember which episode had this discussion (it was either show #7 or show #13). --Minor muppetz 15:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I have a first edition CBS/Fox tape, and I just watched the scene, and it looks like the band is just playing in the background while Kermit and Piggy are talking, and it doesn't look like Dr. Teeth is singing or talking at all. But now I'm more intrigued if later editions show him singing. Since the record has his vocals, does that mean they filmed this scene twice? Is there an alternate version out there, like the UK edition of The Muppet Movie? -- Ken (talk) 01:37, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I have been meaning to watch the scene again to see if Dr. Teeth was singing. --Minor muppetz 02:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

The 1990s Buena Vista release and current DVD include the song with vocals. At this point, it would probably be hard to pinpoint the source of the variation. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:48, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

And I suppose it would be hard to determine whether the CBS/Fox release was exactly the same as the original theatrical release (albeit a full frame version). But if there is a difference, it should be noted on this page. --Minor muppetz 02:52, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I was just watching this scene again. There aren't really any good close-up shots of Dr. Teeth when he's singing, and he's often seen from behind. However, it looks like he's moving his mouth when he's singing on the second to last wide shot of the bus. --Minor muppetz 00:08, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I've got the 2001 Columbia-Tristar DVD, and there's vocals. As Michael says, you can clearly see Dr. Teeth singing in one of the shots. -- Danny (talk) 22:22, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Whatever version aired on TV during the '80s left the lyrics out. Another thing that was not included was Animal shouting "Renoir!" during the "Happiness Hotel" number. I saw it in the theater last winter and they didn't play the lyrics or the line, so I think it was left out of the original theatrical release. I would assume so, anyway, because the version I saw had the original Universal logo on it. --Justin 18:18, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this helps the conversation at all, but I saw a film-reel version of GMC at the Muppets, Music & Magic event last weekend which didn't have the Night Life lyrics or the "Renoir" line. — Joe (talk) 14:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The UK version could be different since there never was a CBS/Fox release over here. areyouakegger

Universal

This page says that Universal originally released this film. Is this true? I thought that ITC released it and originally had the distribution rights. If Universal had some ownership, wouldn't Universal have released it on video, instead of CBS/ Fox? I have seen several television broadcasts which showed the Universal logo at the beginning (I also recall seeing one broadcast where some other logo was shown before the Universal logo was shown), but I figured that Universal just had the broadcast rights. I haven't seen any credits for Universal in the movies credits. --Minor muppetz 15:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

At the time that TGMC came out in 1981, Universal was releasing ITC's theatrical output. Associated Film Distribution, the company that Lord Grade had set up to distribute ITC's films in North America (and who released The Muppet Movie) ended up making a distribution deal with Universal in '81 after a string of major bombs (Raise the Titanic, Saturn 3, Can't Stop the Music) put them too far into the red to continue on their own. This is also why The Dark Crystal carried the Universal logo. Other ITC films released through Universal included On Golden Pond and Sophie's Choice. Of course, ITC kept the TV and video rights to all of these. (Maybe ITC Entertainment was the logo you saw before the Universal logo on TV?) --TServo2049 16:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The Great _______ Caper

I've read in several fan forums (both Muppet and not) there are people that list things with the title "The Great something Caper" as a Muppet Mention or an allusions to the title of this film. I ran some searches and came up with several "The Great something Caper" titles all of which are post-"Muppet Caper".

The Great Capers

• The Great Muppet Caper (film) - 1981
• The Great Radish Caper (episode of Fraggle Rock) - 1985
• The Great Rainbow Caper (episode of My Little Pony) - 1986
• The Great Museum Caper (Clue board game spin-off) - 1991
• The Great Blooper Caper (NBA & Comic Relief special) - 1991
• The Great Simoleon Caper (short story by Neal Stephenson) - 1995
• The Great Money Caper (episode of The Simpsons) - 2000

Is the title for "The Great Muppet Caper" a play off some "The Great something Caper" that came prior to the Muppet's film or are all of the "The Great something Caper" titles truly a possible play on this as the original inspiration? -- Brad D. (talk) 01:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I say no way. Caper titles were incredibly common, as were titles with "The Great" in it- The Great Escape, The Great Race, the 1979 film The Great Riviera Bank Robbery, etc. The Thomas Crown affair was originally Crown Caper. Every episode of the Sam Spade radio series had "Caper" in it- The Cheesecake Caper, The combination of Great [Phrase] Caper mostly does seem to post-date the Muppet flick, true, but even so, I'm incredibly doubtful that they were intended, for the most part, as specific Muppet Caper homages (The Simpsons title might, given the sound of it). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the Simpsons one may be (the writers like to make the titles twisted homages to other films and literary works, sometimes really obscure stuff) maybe next year when the 12th season is released on DVD the commentary will have insight or confirmation on that title's origins. The Fraggle Rock one might also be taken from the Muppet film too. I know "The Great ____" and "The ____Caper" existed before, but I haven’t found a single "The Great ____ Caper" prior to the Muppets. Coincidence? Maybe. But so many wikipedia, TV.com and imdb entries, fourms, blogs and websites confidently cite the Muppets as the origins for these titles that I thought it might be worth figuring out if the Muppets were the first to coin the phrase or if the Muppets took it from something (which might also have been the inspiration for the folks working on My Little Pony or Clue), or if people were jumping to conclusions. If people were saying the title for "The ____ Movie" was an spoof of The Muppet Movie, I'd say "no way". But it is likely (whether conscious or not) that the Muppets were the ones that got "The Great something Caper" into these writers heads. -- Brad D. (talk) 04:04, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm still not buying it unless there's a context for the assumption ("The Great Money Caper," for example, is a soundalike, and The Simpsons has a history of Muppet references); even "The Great Radish Caper" doesn't strike me as being a deliberate reference, though it is mildly possible, so much as a simple combimation of phrases. I did a casual search through the Big Cartoon Database to jog my memory, since my own file is on my machine in El Paso (my copy here having been lost in the theft). We have an episode of the Filmation Superman called "The Great Kryptonite Caper" (1968), an Amazing Chan and the Chan Clan episode called "The Great Illusion Caper" (1972), an episode of Super Stretch and Microwoman called "The Great Candy Bar Caper" (1978), and Raggedy Ann and the Great Santa Claus Caper (1978). And there's probably scores of other examples in television, comics, and/or short stories or children's books, predating The Great Muppet Caper; it's just difficult to search for the phrase with the middle word blank on a large scale. If the Internet has revealed anything, it's that it's easy for Wikipedia, IMDb, TV.com (the most fallible of the lot unless a good editor is in charge), blogs, and websites to be wrong, just as all of the same have so often been wrong about everything from performer IDs to whether Barney appeared on Sesame Street. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Ooh, Barney appeared on Sesame Street? I'm gonna go tell all my friends that I heard it here first! — Scott (talk) 04:23, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Alright, you got some pre-Muppet ones, cased closed. Without an official source to say it was an intentional references I'll agree it's probably just a coincidence (or it’s a reference to something pre-Muppets, which one could argue the Muppet's were playing off of too). Clearly you've proven that the title "The Great Something Caper" was not coined by the Muppets. -- Brad D. (talk) 04:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, season 12 of The Simpsons was released this week. Anybody here buy it and listen to commentary on "The Great Money Caper" to see whether the title reference was deliberate? --Minor muppetz 14:45, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I just got the DVD for Christmas, and I'm watching "The Great Money Caper" with the commentary right now. It was said that the person who pitched the title wasn't thinking of The Great Muppet Caper when he pitched the title, and wondered why the writing staff was laughing at the title. --Minor muppetz 16:56, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Production credits

I know we would not normally include the film editior, or anyone as lowly the production runners. However, I have taken the liberty of including them on this occassion for the following reasons: The film editor was Ralph Kemplan who (I gather from his IMDB entry) was rather a famous film editor in the mid twentieth centuary. The Great Muppet Caper was one of the very last films he ever edited. Not only was he a famous film editor, he also started something of a dynesty of film editors. Both his son and grandson are in that business. As for the production runners, well one of them did just happen to be Lisa Henson, so I thought it worth mentioning that, given both her later work in film production, and who she is. I hope that is ok. On the matter of uncredited actors, I think it particularly worth mentioning Danny John Jules, seeing as he went on to do voice-work on Labyrinth. Emma 22:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I took out production runners. The involvement of Lisa Henson is interesting, but would work better in a trivia note, about family connections in the film and insider cameos, or something. As for Kemplen, he does seem mildly interesting, and did work on The Dark Crystal, but with these exceptions, it might be better to create a page for them first, not just a blank, just to make it clearer exactly why they deserve inclusion. That's what I did with Oswald Morris, who has an even more distinguished history, a picture, and some nifty quotes about Miss Piggy. I also took out the uncredited actors, temporarily anyway, just because IMDb isn't a very good source. While the participation of John-Jules seems verified by his own bios, his specific involvement is fuzzy. I'd thought he was in the DuBonnet Club scene, but comparing with other footage of him, I'm beginning to think I have the wrong picture, and I can't pick him out in any of the street scenes. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:37, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Emma, did the recent cast additions you made come from IMDb or from the credits in the film? — Scott (talk) 22:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, they all came from IMDb. Some are probably true, some, like Trevor Howard, are very questionable to my mind; the only one fully verified is John-Jules, but like I said, I'm beginning to question not so much his inclusion as precisely what he did. So additional sourcing is needed there. I took them out of the article, but I'll park them here for the record. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:39, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

• Uncredited Actors (according to IMDB)

Suzanne Church as a reporter

Patti Dalton as a prisoner

Ian Hanham as a reporter

Trevor Howard as an agrressive man in restaurant

Danny John Jules as a street dancer

Rodney Lovick as a Doorman

David Ludwig as a Delivery Man

Mary Mazstead as a prisoner

The cast ones, at least where uncredited in the film were IMDB, as I mentioned. The crew ones were from the credits. Would somebody like to reaseach Ralph Kemplan and make a page about him? 23:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Brian Henson

An anon. user added a trivia note about Brian Henson being the kid on the tricycle pulling the bikes in the park scene. I think Brian was involved in that scene, but he was much older than tricycle age by then. Can anybody confirm or deny? -- Danny (talk) 10:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Jim Henson mentions that Brian is on a tricycle that pulls the bikes, and that it can be seen in the distance. That was in the behind the scenes episode of the Jim Henson Hour.Rytter 13:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's also mentioned on Brian Henson Cameos (although I've been tempted to remove it, since pulling a bike at a distance isn't exactly a cameo) and I believe The Works specifies it, though I don't have it handy to check. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)