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Two Questions

I have two questions regarding this. First of all, Bernard Crawford is listed as the executive producer. I don't recall this fact ever being addressed in the film. All that's said is that Bernard agreed to give Ronnie a chance to become a Broadway producer, and he agreed to help out with production, but there is nothing said about him being an executive producer (he could have been a second producer, or perhaps a silent partner). Also, it is said that the recasting of the minister was a last-minute change made by Miss Piggy. Again, it's never said in the movie if Miss Piggy was responsible for having a real minister in the film or not (and it's never said in the movie, only in the storybook and comic book adaptions, that it's a real minister). In the comic book adaption, Gonzo was responsible for hiring a real minister (Miss Piggy asks Gonzo if he foudn a doctor to help cure Kermit's amnesia, and Gonzo responds with "No, but I foudn a minister"). Are there any additional sources for these facts? --Minor muppetz 03:50, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, the film certainly implies that Miss Piggy made the substitution (and it's definitely a real minister; apart from suddenly being someone other than Gonzo, the press for the film made much of the fact that a real minister, Dr. Cyril Jenkins, performed the ceremony; in later talk show appearances, which could be cited if absolutely necessary, Piggy brings up the fact that they were wed by a real minister, both in real on occasions when the film is mentioned). And re Crawford, look at the playbill. The text, and also the marquee, read "Bernard Crawford Presents." As discussed previously with Lord Lew Grade, this phrase generally equals executive producer credit. If you want to change that to "Presented by," feel free. But this is a fairly tongue in cheek page to begin with, treating Manhattan Melodies as if it were an actual Broadway production, so I'm not sure it's fair to nitpick too much. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:58, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


I have no clue on how to categorize this? ("Muppets Take Manhattan Culture", "Fictional Stage Shows"...) -- Brad D. (talk) 04:40, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that's why nobody created it before now. Either a generic "Muppet Culture" for items specifically from The Muppet Show and its movie spin-offs (Cluckitis and The Feast of St. Lulu could go in there, as well as other things), or one for fictional plays, movies, TV shows in general. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:43, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
And just for the record, this is a wonderful page. I particularly like the "reviews" section, as well as the hypothetical playbill re-construction. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Are there very many other notable fictional stage shows to justify a category? Would "Cirque Du Lame" and "Moulin Scrooge" (from It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie) qualify (I don't think the christmas show from that movie had a specific title). --Minor muppetz 04:07, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Off the top of my head, in terms of "Fictional Stage Shows", I came up with Manhattan Melodies, Sesame Street Pageants, The 7 Deadly Sins Pagent and Cirque Du So Lame. Some kind of "Fictional Productions" or "Fictional Entertainment" (that included television, film, stage and radio productions) would open it up to more stuff (but I don't know how much more stuff there would be). But technically each episode of "The Muppet Show" was based around a fictional stage show. -- Brad D. (talk) 04:31, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
If we decide to make a category for fictional stage shows, it would be weird to see The Muppet Show categorized as a fictional stage show, since it is a real television show. Then again, perhaps it could be dismbiguated as "The Muppet Show (fictional stage show)" if a seperate articel is made (though I don't think there's much that could be said there that couldn't be said about The Muppet Theatre; Every episode took place during the time that the show was made, from the first 15-30 seconds before curtain to the end of the closing theme, and The Muppet Show as a show within the Muppets universe doesn't have much history that's known to the real viewers (I don't think it's ever been said how The Muppet Show got put on stage in the first place, how Kermit actually became the host, whose idea the show was, etc). And I've started thinking that fictional stage shows should be for main attractiosn and not just short skits or segments, so by that logic "Cirque Du So Lame" and "Moulin Scrooge" probably wouldn't belong there, as those are more short segments than full-scale productions (Cirque Du So Lame was meant to be part of the Muppets christmas show, whichw as the main attraction, and Moulin Scrooge ended up beign part of the show instead, but th christmas show had other acts, including Fozzie's planned christmas monologue, and the Moulin Scrooge act didn't see like it was too much longer than the average musical number on The Muppet Show).

Now, Alice in Wonderland, Robin Hood, and Arabian Nights would qualify, though it would be weird to see those listed as fictional stage shows, since they have been actual stage productions (though without The Muppets involvement). I can't remember if the murder mystery from the Liza Minelli episode had an actual title, but that would qualify (and I think that's the only episode-length play that wasn't based on an existing work of fiction). --Minor muppetz 05:16, 3 December 2006 (UTC)