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Most likely, this site is correct about it being Noel, but I thought I should probably mention that IMDb lists her as being voiced by Kathryn Mullen. I know that site can't always be trusted, but I still think we should take it into consideration and make sure. Garrettk41 01:46, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- IMDb doesn't mean anything, as we've said countless times before; unless it reflects the screen credits, it's just what a user submitted based on a personal guess or rumor, and correcting outright lies and personal fantasies is a difficult task (I know, I've tried it and sometimes succeeded). It's easier to submit false or misleading info to IMDb than it is to get it removed. More importantly, outside of the clear voice match, the information has been confirmed in Noel MacNeal's presskit bio for Bear tours (webpages now seem to be offline); see here. Basic rule with IMDb: it means next to nothing *unless* the screen credits match. In this case, the screen credits don't include an explicit identification outside of clearly listing MacNeal at the top of the list under Board of Birds, so we weigh that with the vocal match and any other sources if they exist. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:54, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- While it's obviously not Kathryn Mullen, I'd like to point out that in an interview on The MuppetCast, Kevin Clash did mention that he voiced one of the board birds, and yet he was only credited udner "additional Muppet performers". --Minor muppetz 01:59, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- That doesn't invalidate the screen credits, though. Did Clash say he "voiced" the character, or did he state he puppeteered him also? The credit block reflects the puppeteers (and pretty much only the main puppeteers for each bird, come to that). "Additional Muppet performers" generally tends to include not just background or bit parts but also fill-ins or assistants; depending on precisely what Clash was asked and how he answered, it could just as easily mean he looped dialogue for one of the credited performers, most of whom were Canadians with little or no Muppet experience in speaking roles. As the Wiki attests, that's happened fairly often, both when professional actors are called in and with Muppeteers looping for other Muppeteers (and for this film, and given the location shooting in Toronto, there was a fair amount of looping anyway). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:10, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Clash specifically said that he only performed a voice of one of those birds. There is a robin in the group who sounded like Elmo, but his line was so brief that if his line really needed to be looped, I'm surprised that they didn't get one of the main performers who performed in the movie to provide the voice. --Minor muppetz 03:34, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- In all likelihood, they either wanted the specific bird sound, or it was a matter of location and availability (and in this case, it was a crowd scene with overlapping dialogue, so that often has to be cleaned up in post, and even more 20 years ago, but it's still common industry practice today). It makes more sense to give an assistant/additional performer an extra opportunity (and depends on where they did the post sound, have to check the credits, but the voices of Miss Finch and the Dodos were in Hollywood, so they probably used Clash because he was there on a special or another series or whatnot) then to call away a main performer. Looping, in and outside of the Muppet realm, is a different world (by the same taken, it's never been fully confirmed, but some of our best voice experts, and I tend to agree now, think Kermit Love looped the owl's more substantial dialogue, so they probably did the sound for that scene in one session, and it was a matter of who was available and/or willing; that would be a good follow-up if anybody wants to probe further the next time Clash is available, but not the kind of thing performers tend to recall, even some of those who make a career out of dubbing or looping). It's also not the kind of thing generally reflected in credits, especially at that time, unless it's a major star and/or significant character, and especially not if the looping was done "in house" by Muppeteers or other staff. That happens a lot (as noted in audio commentary, Brian Levant voiced some of the Creatures in The Flintstones in post, sans screen credit). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:43, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
I thought that this character was referred to as Mother Chairbird, not Madam Chairbird. --Minor muppetz 14:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)