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Kermit on Sesame Street section

I think we should get rid of the Kermit on Sesame Street section since we have a seprate article on it. Don't you guys agree? User:Antsamthompson9.

I don't think the section should be done away with, but perhaps shortened and reworded into a summary of sorts. It's still notable to cover here, even if we have a separate page, which I also see the benefit of having, since we can expand on coverage there; including Kermit's drop out in 1970 (which I'm currently researching), ownership, merchandise, etc. However, the problem right now is that some text from the section was carried over to bulk out the article, and both could stand fixing. -- Jon (talk) 01:09, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
Ditto what John said. Basically what happened was Brad moved a sandbox page to an article (and right now it's in Kermit Sketches, and that's not the best fit for it) so it created that sudden sense of repetition today. We should have coverage of it here, and the solo page can go into it in greater detail (and arguably merge in the merchandise page). It's a situation where rewriting and researching is a better service to our readers than deciding to suddenly leave a huge gap in a significant portion of Kermit's career as just a "see also" (I did some fixing myself, since a section there that claimed that Kermit was "always seen as a guest star" is provably inaccurate per early promotion, CTW internal memos about how to handle Kermit including, pre-Muppet Show, considering just plain buying him). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:07, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
I think that there should still be coverage of Kermit's work on Sesame Street here. The separate page just allows for much more in-depth and detailed coverage that would otherwise overwhelm the focus and balance of this article. -- Brad D. (talk) 13:04, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
We've done the same thing for the possible sequel section of the The Muppets (2011), so why not do it with this? User:Antsamthompson9
They're not comparable. Again, we're talking about a major chunk of Kermit's history, and the problem right now is simply that the sandbox page copied much of the text and right now the two are alike, but that can be fixed and reworded. A Muppets sequel isn't actually about The Muppets 2011 film anyway, so the see also works . I'm glad you noticed the overlap issue, but just deleting the section is *not* the solution, and not one that people are going to agree with you on. Finding out how to adjust the text here as well as the new Kermit the Frog on Sesame Street page, which still has a lot of awkward elements to it, is the solution. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:25, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

What's this from?

Is this photo a spoof or something?You can see Kermit in that position in The Muppets' Big Book of Crafts, but what is it, exactly?--Fred (talk) 03:08, April 26, 2011 (UTC)
Theimage
Where did you get it? —Scott WikiaStaff.png (contact) 03:33, April 26, 2011 (UTC)
I forget which website, but I know I found it on Google Images.I'll see if i can figure that out.--Fred (talk) 03:48, April 26, 2011 (UTC)
Okay, here's the search page I found it on.--Fred (talk) 03:52, April 26, 2011 (UTC)
It's fan art created in the spirit of satire. —Scott WikiaStaff.png (contact) 04:12, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Tonight Show appearance

There's a clip on YouTube from the Tonight Show, dated by the poster 12/31/65. (YouTube) In it, Johnny Carson refers to "Kermit the Frog", and it seems off the top of his head, not scripted, as if that was his accepted name at the time. It's a fascinating clip with two Muppet skits, one of which I'd never seen before. Someone named "Tvrecycler" posted it. -- Galen Fott

Galen, thanks for finding this! I fixed up the origins section a bit, adding some more references. That clip is a real treasure! -- Danny@Wikia (talk) 22:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
And unfortunately the video has been removed because the users account had been terminated. --Minor muppetz 15:20, December 25, 2010 (UTC)

Attention

We've had nine months to work on it but our Kermit the Frog article is still a very weak one. This article has decent coverage of his role in Sesame Street but thats about it (he's done so much more than just Sesame). There is a ton of material to draw from in books (he's even written a few), on the web, and (or course) in other articles on the wiki. We really should fill this article out to a have a better depth and size. Kermit is the leader of the Muppets. The top frog. He deserves better. -- Brad D. (talk) 03:55, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, good point. To help with that expansion process, I'll sketch out some areas that need some work. These sections would come after the Sesame Street heading:
Tales from Muppetland: Outside of Sesame, Henson worked on a number of specials to expand the Muppet universe -- and Kermit, as his signature character, appeared in all of them. In the pre-Sesame Hey Cinderella, Kermit was just another character -- but in the other Tales from Muppetland specials (Frog Prince and Bremen), Kermit moved into the role of host and narrator.
Muppet Show pilots: Kermit moved back into the chorus for the two Muppet Show pilots. He was part of the ensemble of Valentine Show, and then hardly appeared at all in Sex and Violence, turning over host duties to Nigel.
The Muppet Show:
  • Kermit as host and backstage manager (It would be nice to have some quotes about the parallel between Kermit's role and Henson's role.)
  • Kermit's relationship with Fozzie
  • Kermit's relationship with Miss Piggy
  • Did Kermit's personality change over the course of the show?
  • Episodes that focused on Kermit -- character moments
The Muppet Movie: Kermit's story
The Great Muppet Caper and The Muppets Take Manhattan: Kermit playing other roles, but still being the "boss" of the group
Post-TMS specials: I don't know how much there is to say, but Kermit did a bunch of specials and appearances after TMS...
Passing the torch: When Henson died in 1990, there was a lot of concern that Kermit would be retired. There's a lot to talk about here -- it would be good to have some quotes from news articles about the company's plans to keep Kermit alive. It would also be good to have quotes from Whitmire about the prospect of taking on the character for The Muppets Celebrate Jim Henson.
Rebirth: Kermit in The Muppet Christmas Carol -- a new voice, a new take on the character. Again, I think we could find good quotes on people's reactions to "the new Kermit" -- it would be cool to have some stuff from reviews of MXC.
The new Kermit: Muppet Treasure Island, Muppets Tonight, Muppets From Space -- Has the character changed? Has his role in the group changed? What's Kermit up to now?
So there you go -- lots of stuff to work on! -- Danny (talk) 10:37, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, I've added some things to this page. It could use some more work. I'll try to include a lot more later, if nobody beats me to it. --Minor muppetz 14:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Michael's done some great work on this, but I'm a little concerned with organization. I did a rewrite of the "Changing Performers" section, but it mostly has less to do with the change from Henson to Whitmire, and any performance differences/similarities, than how Kermit became more of a supporting player, and while there is a connection, it overlaps a bit with the section in the movies on his character roles. Rather than just dividing it by series/production category, I think it might be worthwhile to use Gonzo as a model. Some areas, like Sesame Street, Muppet Show, and the movies, deserve their own sections, but a lot of the others feel as if they could be merged and placed in clearer contrast with each other. Otherwise reading this article, it feels like you're leaping around and it's hard to clearly follow the character's development. For example, the brief section on Muppet Babies sticks out like a sore thumb, especially since "Baby Kermit" isn't the same as adult Kermit. Maybe discuss notable shifts in the portrayal, but right now, it's just a distraction, as is "Later Specials," which could either be discussed with specials in general (since his duties on The Christmas Toy and Mr. Willowby were basically identical to his Emmet Otter role), or later appearances, and perhaps even with the specials, a distinction between Kermit as narrator/wry side character in the storybook specials and Kermit in the Muppet Show-based universe needs to be made. Still, the article is definitely getting there, and it's much easier to work through these issues when you have some foundation text to start with, so kudos to Michael! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:24, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The last paragraph of "The Muppet Show" section has a lot of info that's covered in previous paragraphs within that section. Could it be removed/edited down for clarity? -- Shawn 09:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi-ho!

When did Kermit start saying "Hi-ho, Kermit the Frog here"? When did he stop? -- Danny (talk) 19:18, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I know he started saying it around when he appeared on "Sesame Street." He said it at the beginning of all his news bulletins on the show. BTW, I noticed that Kermit also says "Sheesh" and "Wait a second" a lot. --Wile e2005 02:03, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Did he ever really stop saying "Hi, ho, Kermit the Frog here?" Of course, I'm not too sure if he ever said it outside of Sesame Street, but if he only said it on Sesame Street, and hasn't said it since The Jim Henson Company sold the rights to the Sesame Street Muppets, then I guess he probably won't say it again anytime soon. And if he never said it outside of Sesame Street, then the last time he sad it was probably his last appearanc eon Sesame Street, in the first of the "Hurricane" episodes from 2001. I can't remember if he said that line in that episode, but I think he did. --Minor muppetz 14:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
He said it on the Muppet Treasure Island software game. However, I usually associate that line with Sesame Street, just as I associated Kermit from Sesame Street when I was little.

Attention

Someone added a whole slew of Trivia, much of which is not relevant to this article. I'm thinking most of it can be weeded out as it is, or should be, found elsewhere. -- Scott (talk) 15:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I weeded pretty dramatically. That stuff was all taken from the Wikipedia Kermit the Frog article, where I guess they have lower standards for what counts as trivia. The Henson quotes were unsourced, and possibly made up. The stuff about college students making a plaster Kermit was too trivial even for a trivia section. The appearances stuff was a random list of four appearances, out of hundreds that he's made. I just kept the two notes that I thought were relevant. -- Danny (talk) 15:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I've heard versions of the two Henson quotes before. I'll keep my eye out for a source. -- Scott (talk) 15:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot to read it before I posted it (now that I saw read again it was dumb), I won't do it again.:( -- Ian (talk) 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Filmography

I'm not crazy about the Kermit filmography. I think it's a little weird to have a list like that for such a major character. What do other folks think? -- Danny (talk) 12:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

You could always put it in a list, like I did with Kermit Songs. -- Scott (talk) 13:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm not crazy about it either, but I started it to better document what Kermit was and wasn't in during the early years, plus guest appearances and footage like the Playhouse Videos or the Muppet Babies Storybook Videos. I think that's important information, but I don't mind if we say Filmography: see Kermit's Filmography instead of keeping it on the list. -- Peter (talk) 14:26, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Double Collar

If the double collar premiered in Hey Cinderella, when did it permanently change to a single collar? -- Peter (talk) 19:05, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

The start of The Muppet Show, I believe. Actually, I just got done watching the Muppet Show episode where Muppet Morsels mentions it. Chunk 19:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Kermit actually did have a single-collar before he had his double collar. He has only one collar in Hey Cinderella, the Sesame Street sales piece, and the first season of Sesame Street. I wonder when he first got his double-collar (my guess would be The Frog Prince). --Minor muppetz 14:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

When does Kermit become a frog?

We've been going back and forth on this page about when Kermit actually became a frog. He's definitely a frog by Sesame Street (1969) and Hey Cinderella (1970). Jim Henson: The Works says he was fully a frog in The Frog Prince (1971), but that's clearly not true. I think it would be good to have a little section on this page about when Kermit became a frog, once we get all the facts straight. So what do we know for sure? -- Danny Toughpigs 13:05, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

It would also be nice to have sources for the Jim Henson info:
As Jim Henson described: "All the characters in those days were abstract".
Henson was most comfortable with Kermit as his main signature character because the puppet was the lightest in weight, and thus the most comfortable to use for extended periods of time. -- Danny Toughpigs 13:15, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Kermit was definitely a frog in "Hey Cinderella", complete with flippers; before that, the flipper-less Kermit was referred to as a frog twice in "The Muppets On Puppets" (1968). I guess that's the one we're looking for. -- Jog 13:49, 26 January 2006 (UTC) Jog
But doesn't Sesame Street predate Hey Cinderella? Does he have flippers there? I didn't know that about The Muppets On Puppets -- that's a great fact. I don't know if I have a copy of that... It would be nice to have the quotes. -- Danny Toughpigs 14:38, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
We've been trying to figure this one out for a while in the rumors section: Kermit's Froghood. -- BradFraggle 15:30, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Hey, Cinderella was broadcast in 1970, but I think it was filmed earlier. I have seen a few websites that list it as being made in 1968 and some that say it was made in 1969. Kermit does have flippers in hey, Cinderella, as well as in the first season of Sesame Street. I have also read that The Muppets On Puppets was broadcast in 1970, but sicne it's in black and white then it must have been made soemtime in the 1960s. --Minor muppetz 16:03, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Oh, good call, I forgot about tape dates. I checked the timeline at the back of Jim Henson: The Works -- it says that Hey Cinderella and The Muppets On Puppets were both filmed in 1968. Given the emphasis on Kermit's froghood in Hey Cinderella, I'd say that's the origin. I'll add that to the article, for now... -- Danny Toughpigs 17:42, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Kermit calls himself a frog in Muppets On Puppets, but it obviously predates Hey Cinderella. He is still wearing his sweater, with stumpy feet and no collar. It was definitley made before SS or Cinderella. As far as I know, the special aired as a part of the Adventure In The Arts series on PBS in 1968. I don't understand why they'd air it in '70. That information probably came from a rerun. Anyway, Kermit's first frog mention as far as we know is Muppets on Puppets. His collar and flippers appear in Cinderella. Scooter 21:08, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Kermit's birthday

Where does Kermit's "official" birthdate come from? -- Scarecroe 06:10, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Submit to have the info removed without a source. -- Scarecroe 03:22, 30 Dec 2005 (UTC)
I agree. I was just about to post the same thing. -- Toughpigs 03:44, 30 Dec 2005 (UTC)
An anonymous user added May 9th as Kermit's official birthday again. Does anybody have a source for that? -- Danny Toughpigs 13:05, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
From NPR "Monday, May 9, 2005...It's easy being green... when it's your birthday: Kermit the Frog turns 50 years old Monday.". The May 9th Birthday is also stated here, here, and here. -- BradFraggle 15:28, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
NPR is good enough for me. -- Scarecroe 16:25, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
May 9th was also the premier of Sam And Friends, I assume that's where they get it from. Scooter 04:29, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Is there any evidence that Kermit actually appeared in the first episode of Sam and Friends? The Kermit stick puppet figure has three copyright dates on the bottom of his foot: 1956, 1976, and 1978. It's possible that he first appeared on TV in 1956, and not 1955 (then again, Jim Henson could have waited a year to copyright his characters, just like he waited four years to form a company). --Minor muppetz 01:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Slate piece

A piece on Kermit, some minor insights may be gleanable. Powers 23:33, November 23, 2011 (UTC)

Bill Farmer as Kermit?

Apparently, Bill Farmer, the voice of Goofy, preformed Kermit once. Does anyone know what project it was? --User:Antsamthompson9.

Given the nature of soundalikes (and it's hard to tell from the one interview where he mentions it whether it's simply that he does a "good Kermit" or whether it was actually used), it was most likely a talking toy, commercial, or other product of that kind which needed a "voice match" and where the main performer either would have a conflict or wouldn't even be contacted. Definitely nothing major, unless it was looping a line somewhere. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
Ant, what's your source? —Scott (message me) 19:22, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
The only direct source I could find was this 2010 interview, here. Farmer, outside of voicing Goofy, has taken over several established characters but also done a lot of impressions, and here's the exact passage:
"TZN: I’ve heard you also do a good Kermit the Frog. Have you done any other characters besides Goofy and Pluto?
BILL FARMER: Oh, I’ve done a lot of them over the years of course, (In Kermit The Frog’s voice) Kermit the Frog, a very exciting voice." [He follows by listing Warner Bros. characters, most of which *can* be tied to specific projects where he was credited, which led to the assumption.]
So that's vague as to whether he's just demonstrating it, or whether he actually voiced Kermit at one point. And that turned into, in a YouTube comment, a "I heard Bill Farmer preformed Kermit when Steve Whitmire was sick" thing. It's clear that if he ever did the Kermit voice outside of stand-up or parody (a 1980s Rich Little album which I need to add here has a throwaway bit with a Kermit impersonator), it *was* just the voice. And most likely "voice matching" either for a toy, commercial etc. (tons of trailers use voice matches rather than the actual person, and so do just about all Disney toys with very rare exceptions) or *possibly* looping a line somewhere (not impossible, and looping folks are typically uncredited or just in a blanket "Loop Group" category rather than clarify what they did individually). So that's basically the two possibilities, just an impression or in a parody (he mentions doing Bugs for Robot Chicken, so something on those lines is quite possible) or done as a voice match for something minor, or which may not even have come about (say, a test voice for a Disney attraction or game). That's without writing to Bill Farmer and being much more precise in our query than the Toonzone interviewer was. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:31, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

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