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Some of the non-Henson productions listed here, although are part of Frank's "acting" credits are not really "cameos" (Cameo: A very small part in a film, TV show, or other media production; usually done by a well-known actor (or otherwise famous person) or behind the scenes personnel). Frank's 5 Star Wars films as Yoda I would not consider a cameo - he was not on screen and he also was a staring memember of the cast -- Yoda was not a cameo character. (Would we count Kathryn Mullen's non-Henson puppeteering as Allegra on Allegra's Window as a cameo?). I think some of the non-Henson cameos need to be cleaned up, and if needed give a "Non-Henson Credits" section to some performers' pages to list the person's non-henson roles and work, but many of the non-Henson cameos are not really cameos they are just non-Henson roles. Likewise, another "grey" area for me is listing Richard Hunt as Dell in Puppetman as a cameo, its listed as a cameo because its an on-screen role of a Muppeteer, but he was an actor in the series, it was not just a bit part. -- BradFraggle 19:20, 1 April 2006 (UTC) (edit: sorry forgot to log-in)
- Thing is, though we're using the blanket term cameos, it basically applies to any on-camera appearance by a puppeteer (which would be my main quibble with some of the Oz stuff, that they're either voice roles or things like Yoda; I'd definitely remove those, and probably Brill's voice roles, unless we want to put them on their main performer pages). If we don't list Richard Hunt's Puppetman role in cameos, where do we put it? I mean, we could have a seperate area, but there's generally only one "starring" role for these folks. I reworded Hunt's page to specify that Del was a leading role, and I'd already done likewise on Bill Barretta's Jack in the Beanstalk part. That seems to me the easiest way to handle these things. I've changed the cameo category description to reflect this. While I sort of understand your complaints, I don't really see what you expect us to do apart from not mention any of the larger roles at all except maybe in the actor or production pages, which strikes me as less than helpful. -- Andrew, Aleal 19:24, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- I guess the key here is "On-camera appearance", so things like Yoda is just "non-Henson puppeteering". I think vocal work and puppeteering work done outside of Henson should not be listed as cameos but just under their performer's credits as "Non-Henson productions". Fran Brill's vocal work on "Doug" isn't a cameo. Brian Henson on Return to Oz isn't a cameo. And Frank doing Yoda shouldn't be either. Now, on-camera appearances in documentaries and talk shows don't count, right? Or else there are a whole lot more to add to the lists. -- BradFraggle 19:37, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- Like I said, I agree with you those shouldn't count, and the Brian Henson credit isn't listed on his cameo page anyway. So feel free to remove them. I didn't add them, and I'm too tired to mess with them myself. Documentaries and talk shows don't generally count, no. It depends. See Jim Henson Cameos. The Wilson's Meats Meeting Films stuff count because it's not a real documentary and, especially the shirtless commercial bit, more of an acting cameo. The cameos as himself in productions count because of their brevity, and the fact that they're trated as cameos. The Jim Henson Hour hosting gig is tricky, but probably worth including just for the sake of being all inclusive. Of course, a seperate list of doucmentary/talk show appearances, either on the cameo pages or on a performer's page, might be neat. --Andrew, Aleal 19:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)