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What About Picklepuss?
I'm wondering whether Picklepuss deserves his own spot under "Puppets". I'm aware that the Henson company rebuilt him and Pop in 1988 for their appearance in Wow, You're a Cartoonist, but is that really the same as a Muppet adaptation of a character? Maybe there's some gray area for Picklepuss. -- Dave Splurge 01:06, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not sure about Picklepuss' status as a "celebrity". I think Caroll Spinney fans are probably the only people who know who he is. -- Danny (talk) 01:32, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, you're right. Even his being a character in Boston's airings of Bozo's Big Top would probably be too obscure to really be a celebrity. I guess I was hoping his association with a real fictional celebrity, Bozo, might qualify, and thought I'd take a chance. -- Dave Splurge 18:32, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
If Cliff Huxtable as portrayed by Bill Cosby on The Cosby Show counts for this list, then does that mean Mr. Rogers counts for the time Big Bird was on his show? Right now, it just has the time he (Mr. Rogers) appeared on Sesame Street. -- Ken (talk) 04:34, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, I'd be inclined to take him out entirely, since Fred Rogers *was* "Mr. Rogers" to a greater extent than, say, Bob Keeshan was Captain Kangaroo. Sure, outside appearances generally addressed him as mister, but the gentle persona was the same, not a fictional creation really, and while Fred Rogers certainly didn't have his mail delivered by Mr. McFeely, he frequently did shows where he explained how the TV series was made, and so on. So it's not the same as Cliff Huxtable (or even Pee-Wee Herman), but very much a gray area, to my mind closer to the realm of, say, Bob Hope and Dolly Parton; their personalities as exhibited in the Muppet contexts are not quite the same as the real person but not really "characters" either. Of course, if you want to link to him as X the Owl, *now*, that's a different matter. :) -- Andrew Leal (talk) 11:11, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
- Okay, I thought about this some more, and I know why I'm confused. First, I think this page should be changed to something like "Fictional characters who have appeared in Muppet productions" or something like that. It looks like this is the opposite page of Sandbox:Appearances in outside fictional universes. Where on that page, Grover appears on The Electric Company as a real person, here would be Murphy Brown appearing on Sesame Street as a real person. So I can already see some stuff that doesn't belong. Bill Cosby as Cliff Huxtable on The Cosby Show doesn't belong here, because it's not a Muppet production, and it's already on the other page. So Mr. Rogers guest starring on Sesame Street belongs here, but Big Bird guest starring on Mr. Rogers belongs there (and it already is). So that means that Kermit appearing in the Big Boy comic book doesn't belong here either, since that was a Big Boy comic book. If Big Boy happened to appear in a Muppet Babies comic book, then it would belong here. So I'd like to move some stuff around if nobody objects. -- Ken (talk) 04:46, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
- I don't think it's an issue. Big Bird guest starred on Mr. Rogers *in the Neighborhood of Make Believe*. So that's a fictional universe, but not one where he encountered Mr. Rogers, just the fantasy characters (since basically, Mr. Rogers isn't fictional). So I don't really want to rename this, but if you want to yank out anyone who appeared with the Muppets on their own show, I guess that's okay, though I don't think that does any harm. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:51, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
- I kind of like having Big Boy here, which I think brings attention to him, but you're right, it is different. Go ahead and list any others you're doubtful of, which in this case is probably easier on a case by case basis than applying a rule of thumb (looking at it, with Cliff Huxtable, it's mostly because we have that blanketed so well on The Cosby Show and not really surprising to most, as opposed to, "Hey, Max Headroom, Beetle Bailey, and Sid Caesar's Professor all showed up on Sesame Street! Neat!") -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
- No, those are fine, because they were actually on Sesame Street. I'm talking about anything that would fit on the other page, and at some point, I'd like to take it out of the Sandbox, because I think it's a neat idea, but I can't think of anything to add to it. One more thing. Would you be open to call this page "Fictional characters" instead of celebrities? I guess I'm having trouble understanding what a fictional celebrity is. -- Ken (talk) 05:27, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
- I don't really want to rename the page. The whole fun of it was including instances when famous characters appeared with the Muppets (context doesn't matter, really, outside of also encompassing some who appeared in non-Muppet inserts on Sesame, so it doesn't matter much if they appeared on the other character's TV show or with them in a special or in a sketch or in the magazine), usually actors in character but also cartoons and comics and so on. Some of the literary stuff kind of gets away from that (the Hercule Poirot thing is closer to a cameo by the character than Scrooge and Long John Silver and so on), but that's the essential purpose. Of course we were doing more lists in those days, and a little more clarity wouldn't hurt, but I also don't want to take the fun out of it by too much overthinking. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:45, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
- Just my two sense, but I agree with not wanting the fun factor of the article lost by over thinking. I don't see why the characters can't stay here, as it's a fun read for anyone who might happen across the page. I don't see why a character couldn't exist on both pages. If their celebrity is enough to warrent it. -- Nate (talk) 21:09, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me there should be a distinction drawn between characters appearing in their own stories (Cinderella in Hey Cinderella!, Scrooge in The Muppet Christmas Carol, Cliff Huxtable in The Cosby Show, and so on) and characters appearing in things that aren't primarily about them (various Muppet Show and Sesame Street appearances). --Paul A 03:29, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
- Good question. I don't remember. Forget I said anything. --Paul A 04:01, 19 September 2006 (UTC)