Talk:Ernie and Bert Sketches

Attention

I've moved all the uncited sketches to Ernie and Bert Sketches: Date Unknown and set up the new format for each season page. Please move sketches from "Date Unknown" to the appropriate season page only if you have an episode number or some other documentation to cite the year of origin.

Also, I haven't moved any uncited sketches from seasons 1-5 yet as there are many more in those pages, and I didn't want to overload Dates Unknown any more than it is. But more than half the sketches in each of the season 1-5 pages are still uncited. They could be in the right place, who knows? — Scott (talk) 08:33, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Brian started using the REF and REFERENCE tags as a good example of citing a source when we don't have an episode number. Check it out: Ernie and Bert Sketches: Season 25. — Scott (talk) 17:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC

Phil For E&B sketches Seasons 1=5 we should keep them the way they are. I disagree with the fact of moving sketches from other seasons and keeping the there. For e.g. the sketch where The Count sleeps over is from 7 season but it was moved to the Ernie and Bert Sketches:Season 19. (talk) 16:46, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The thing is, Phil, how can you source that it came from season 7? We're organizing them by which seasons we know they *appeared* in. If you know for certain it came from season 7, and can offer a source (TV Guide entry, episode number, etc.), then feel free to move it back. Otherwise, for examples like Season 19, I suppose we can move them to unknown date, with a note about the episode they appear in not being the debut date. But I don't think just leaving unsourced sketches is the best idea either. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Attention: Format

Should we start converting these over to the new recurring sketch format we're using on (for example) Pigs in Space and Monsterpiece Theater? — Scott (talk) 03:17, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

This I recommend. --MuppetVJ 03:54, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, please. -- Danny (talk) 10:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this should be done. -- Brad D. (talk) 21:22, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Name

should it be "Ernie and Bert" or "Bert and Ernie"? (stupid question, but I remember an argument about this in high school). "Bert and Ernie" gets more google hits [1] than [2] Gimli 15:55, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

It's really just a matter of taste. There's no official answer. Strangely enough, the books seem to prefer "Ernie and Bert", and the albums prefer "Bert and Ernie".

In the books, there's The Ernie & Bert Book, Ernie and Bert Can...Can You?, Ernie and Bert's Different Day, The Adventures of Ernie & Bert in Twiddlebug Land and Ernie and Bert's New Kitten. There aren't any books that have "Bert and Ernie" in the title.

There's three record albums that say "Bert and Ernie", and two that say "Ernie and Bert". There's Bert & Ernie: Side By Side, Bert and Ernie Sing-Along and Bert and Ernie's Greatest Hits vs. At Home with Ernie and Bert and Havin' Fun with Ernie and Bert.

If you take all those titles together, it's 7 "Ernie and Bert" to 3 "Bert and Ernie". That's not conclusive, but it's interesting. -- Danny Toughpigs 18:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Separate bedrooms

IMDb claims there were skits where the two had separate bedrooms. True? -- Zanimum 15:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Not true. At least, not as far as I've ever seen. -- Danny Toughpigs 11:53, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it is true. During the first season in 1969, there were a couple of scenes where they showed only one bed in the room: the one with Bert taking a nap (Ernie: "Poke poke poke!") and the one where Cookie Monster tries to steal Ernie's pillow. Bert and Ernie started sharing the bedroom in 1970. -- Jog 12:29, 23 March 2006 (UTC) Jog

Or maybe they just stopped sleeing in the same twin bed in 1970? --Pantalones 14:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Not unless Ernie doesn't mind sleeping in a bed with the letter "B" over his head, and vice versa. -- Jog 14:45, 23 March 2006 (UTC) Jog

Page Length?

We split the listing into 1969-1989 and 1990-present due to the long length of the article. Wiki suggests no more than 32k per page (not including pics). Right now the two pages total around 50-60kb. The 1969-1989 over 32kb (it gives you a little warning at the top of the edit page, saying you should consider splitting it up) and it is still growing. Do we care that it is a long and large page? Would splitting it into 1969-1979, 1980-1989, and 1990-present be helpful for holding, organizing and presenting this large episode guide we're building? Or is it fine as is? -- BradFraggle 20:34, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea to split it up. Eventually, it's going to get so big and detailed that we'll probably need a separate page for every season. We can do that now, or put it off, depending on who has the energy and initiative to do it. Any takers? -- Danny Toughpigs 20:37, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Thing is, right now some of the seasons are blank or very brief. How about a three way split for now? There's 24 sections at present, so how about the pilot through 1975, the Muppet Show through 1982, and then 1983 through the unknown dates? (Though one could argue that the unknown one could be a seperate page, but it will also grow progressively smaller as we find dates for more of the sketches, so not sure about that one). --Andrew, Aleal 20:44, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm just thinking ahead. These pages are going to get more fleshed out -- probably sooner than you think. The wiki expands to fill all available space, and the available space is infinite. :) So we can split up the pages into three, and then split them up again in two weeks and again a week after that, or we can just bite the bullet and split them into seasons now. The empty pages will fill up. I actually have some free time -- if nobody objects, I'll do the splitting. -- Danny Toughpigs 20:50, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Then go forth and multiply! I'm trying to finish a Dreiser report, and then take a look at the Puppetman script and pilot tape, which it turns out Syracuse's university library has! --Amdrew, Aleal 20:53, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

No kidding, that's awesome! Go, finish that report. -- Danny Toughpigs 20:55, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Looks good! -- Brad User:BradFraggle 23:31, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Phew! -- Danny Toughpigs 23:41, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Episode numbers necessary?

Do we really need them? --MuppetVJ 19:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Maybe for tape trading purposes, but then again there are plans of expanding the episodes with a list of inserts. -- MuppetDude 19:40, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, there are no episode numbers on the News Flash or Game Show pages, so that's why I wonder if we need them on any of those pages besides the episode guides. --MuppetVJ 17:45, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I like having episode numbers for the sketches -- I'm the one who put them in. I think it grounds them in a chronology. I like the way they've been split up into season now, and I think having episode numbers helps to organize them within a year. We use episode numbers for the Pigs in Space and Vet's Hospital sketches. I know that inserts get repeated all the time, but I think it's worthwhile having them marked with the first episode that we know they were in. Is there an objection to me putting them back in? -- Danny Toughpigs 22:08, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

It's true -- they do get repeated all the time. But I see your point. Now that we have a way of knowing which years they were made, perhaps we could put a parenthesis indicating which episodes they appear in, such as:

Bert is Sick (1092)

Talk Slower! (2073)

The Rhyming Game (926, 1576)

...and do the same for the News Flash, Game Show, Pageant, MUPPET/KID etc. pages.

--MuppetVJ 22:33, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that looks good to me. My preference would be just to list the earliest airing of the sketch -- or at least the earliest one that we know of. I think listing all the airings will get messy, especially with the sketches that were repeated a lot. Putting in the first airing helps us put them into chronological order. -- Danny Toughpigs 22:58, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I also vote for putting the episode numbers back in (at least the first appearance). That will eventually help us track down which season they belong to, even if we don't know now. Otherwise, I really like all the revisions since this afternoon. -- TomH 03:33, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Chronological order?

Are these sketches in any kind of order, chronological or otherwise? The list starts with Episode 1, but then goes from 1969 to 1973 back to 1970, etc. They don't seem to be in alphabetical order, either. Even going by episode number, it's not always sequential. I don't mind re-ordering them, but if there's a system I'm not seeing, I don't want to screw that up. -- TomH 18:50, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

There probably was a system at first, but then folks added new skits, sans dates, as they recalled them, so when someone else plugged in the dates, it threw things out of whack. Feel free to have a go! --Andrew, Aleal 18:58, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. Thanks! -- TomH 20:16, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I started this guide, but the order was a guess, based on what I know. I, like many other users, do not know the exact order, I don't know what year each is from, I haven't seen every skit I listed (so I have no visual refference to guess the season by film quality or the way a character looked, and even if I've seen it, I can't tell exactly what year it was made, but I cna usually tell what time period (early 1970s, late 1970s, etc.) it was from), and the titles are mostly guesses/ made up (song titles are the main exception). This applies to nearly all Sesame Street Sketches. --Minor muppetz 05:14, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

One and One Make Two

I can vouch for this -- I remember seeing it at least once, back in '91.--MuppetVJ 19:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

High, Middle, Low

Was there an episodic version of the song? -- Scott Scarecroe 19:49, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

The only one I know of is the version with three Anything Muppets barbershoppers: Jerry Nelson as High, Joe Raposo as Middle and Jeff Moss as Low. No E&B in that one. --MuppetVJ 16:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)