TALK PAGES ARE NO LONGER USED
To discuss article changes, please use:
so this is what the source looks like. it's a clearance form for music royalties, so it doesn't have all sketches, but it certainly has a ton of info we don't have on the wiki. it's in the CTW Archives at UMD. Their collection covers every episode for season 3 and season 4 (the latter labeled Music Cue Sheet). i can work on putting this stuff up too, but i've still got a ton of nhk guides to do, so if anyone else wants to do these go right ahead--it's about 320 pages ($32) to photocopy, if that helps you plan your archive trip.
as you can see, it's got some stuff i can't quite identify, and perhaps someone who has worked with the Season 1 content, or is more familiar with the early cartoons & stuff, will be able to make more sense of it:
M-Mouse: it credits Snyder & Fascinato for the music. don't know anything about them (see my post in Ken Snyder discussion) but maybe snyder is lyricist & fascinato did the background music. I identified it as that particular sketch b/c it's got the script in the NHK guide, so now that i see them calling that sketch M-Mouse, we'll be able to identify it from other episodes where we only have written notes. but i don't know how to credit it--just Snyder as Artist if he is the animator? or see if we can get a group of Snyder/Fascinato animations to make a page for?
Bus -- with music by James Harpham. a quick google search suggests that he's a jazz pianist. this could be the sketch where the kid talks about her dad being a bus driver?
B-Wall -- another snyder & fascinato. but i don't know what the sketch is.
What's that Line Fish (Eng & Sp) -- don't know what that one is
Jack & the B Stalk, Henson Powder 3 (rollercoaster 1, 2, 3), and Snyder-Fascinato B-wall all appear twice--i don't know if/how you want to note that. which brings up the question of order--these show order of segments, but don't show all segments, so i don't know how it would be best to integrate non-musical segments taken from NHK or other CTW archive sources, if we want to indicate order of segments when we know it.
Pixillation Music -- i don't know how you want to deal with info that narrows down the segment without giving us the exact segment. this is most likely a cast insert, building a letter or some such thing. other episodes include semi-identifiable things like "sherlock hemlock tag" so we know he was in the episode, but we don't know which segment it was. should we note that sort of thing in the article or discussion page or just leave it out altogether?
--Kate 23:29, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
- The B-Wall entry seems like it probably matches this film, definitely by Snyder and Fascinato, with kids painting B on a glass wall/camera lens. I can't find anything else by the two of them which seems to fit, though Snyder's studio did a lot so it's not impossible. And for the vague stuff you mention, definitely don't leave out entirely; I'd say park here and then we can see if we can either figure it out or want to note it in some way later, maybe via a "Notes" section on the article, just to make it clear that Sherlock or whoever's in the episode. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:39, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
- I love this stuff! Kate, are you near to the archives? I was thinking that if we could get copies of sheets like this for episodes we already have on video (like the 1st 10 season openers) we'll be able to figure out their shorthand for labeling sketches. Also, I noticed that this sheet is useful because it numbers segments, even though the ones that don't contain music are skipped. So if #1 is the show ID (which would have been the cartoon with the episode number), then #2 is the theme, then #3 is the first street scene (which is skipped). So I think we can use these to fill in holes and cross-reference the stuff that Danny has. I also think that "detectives counting 11-20" is "Fred, get me a 20!", and I think Pixillation Music might be the dots on a blue background. -- Ken (talk) 01:27, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
- The specific notation helps (film/cast/VTR). VTR would be "Video Tape Recording" (the segments Kate mentioned, with the human cast putting together a number or letter or sometimes cast-free movements of objects, used a process which was indeed called pixillation, a stop-motion variant mostly associated with Norman McLaren in which live actors' movements were altered frame by frame and sped up or slow down, is something that VTR could have done just by doing "fast forward," akin to tape technology creating chipmunk voices). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:41, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
- as far as i know, they only have seasons 3 & 4, but i did copy all of those. i'm not that near the archive, i just made a few trips recently b/c i happened to be passing through by car, which is rare. (btw, karen the archivist's first advice was to make sure i knew about a wonderful resource called the muppet wiki...) i'll try to post some more, esp the ones we have guides for. it's just going to take some time--i don't have a scanner, need direct morning light to get a photo that isn't blurry, also have tons of japanese guides to work through (just found some from the '90s, too). but i will post some, b/c you will recognize many of these segments better than i will. oh, and anything that's cut off isn't my fault--the USE column with the BI, BV, & VV designations is often cut off in their copies, at least of season 3 logs. --Kate 22:38, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
Using the Music Log & Japanese guide together, here is my best guess at the order of segments. There are a few about whose positions I have no clue whatsoever. Maybe they should just go up in this order minus the placeholders? --Kate 23:53, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
- Tom leaves the store for a minute, and when he returns, someone has taken a scoop of ice cream and left a quarter. The culprit also left a yellow feather. Big Bird comes in to order an ice cream, and Tom tells him he must have quite an appetite, as he just had an ice cream. Big Bird says he didn't, but Tom doesn't believe him until a woman comes in to tell him he has delicious ice cream and to retrieve the feather that fell from her hat.
- Detectives Counting 11 – 20. Fred, played by Joe Raposo, wanders the streets of New York in search of a 20 when his boss, played by Danny Epstein tells him “Fred, get me a 20!”
- Susan plays a numerical correspondence game with the kids. She puts out a certain number of oranges and has the kids count to themselves and find the number that matches the oranges.
- Animation: An orange pops out of a basket of fruits and gets "made up" as the face of Carmen, the role in the opera of the same name. While singing "Habanera," the famed aria from the opera, Carmen loses her "face" and can't resume singing until the wig returns.
- Mr. and Mrs. Snow (snowmen) talk about bottom, middle, head, and other body parts and clothing.
- Kermit's Lectures: Bob holds an American bullfrog and asks Kermit to talk about frogs. However, due to living a somewhat different life than normal frogs, what Kermit says about frogs is somewhat incorrect; for example, Kermit believes that frogs eat fried chicken and pizza, and live in apartment houses.
- Cartoon: Jack and the “B” Stalk. ‘’Music: Arnold Black’’
- Anything muppets have the same face, hair, and outfits, but they have different voices.
- Jungle Add Subtract. ‘’Music by Walt Kraemer.’’
- "Same and Different" song: How are these two toys the same? ‘’Music by Joe Raposo and Jeff Moss.’’
- Film: Bus. ‘’Music by James Harpham.’’
- Two monsters stand on either side of a large plate of cookies. Herry Monster has an "R" on his sweatshirt and growls menacingly, "Rrrrrrrr". A fat blue monster has an "S" on his sweatshirt and hisses ominously, "Sssssssss". While they argue in this way, Cookie Monster (wearing an "M" on his sweatshirt) comes along, eats the cookies, rubs his tummy and says, "Mmmmmmmmmm".
- Cartoon: A Boy and a Cart. A boy and father think of how to make a cart. ‘’Music: Terry Gadsden’’
- Cartoon: A Boy and a Cart (Spanish)
- B - Bug
- B - Ball
- B Wall: Kids paint pictures of things that start with B. ‘’Producer: Ken Snyder Enterprises; Music: Jack Fascinato
- "Big Bird Buys Big Blue Book"
- What’s That Line Fish
- What’s That Line Fish (Spanish)
- Cartoon: Jack and the “B” Stalk (repeat)
- Rollercoaster 1, 2, 3 (repeat)
- Pixillation, with music by Joe Raposo.
- Jazz #3 (repeat)
- Be - B
- Ernie and Bert: Ernie comes from finishing his bath, and tells Bert that there's something that he forgot. Bert asks if he's washed behind his ears, his neck, and his elbows. Finally, Ernie remembers that he forgot to turn off the water in the tub -- as the water level rises.
- B Wall: Kids paint pictures of things that start with B. (repeat)
Don’t know the position:
- Oscar fights litter.
- Ernie Puts the Vase Away