Muppets on the Sesame stoop?
User:Joe Hardy added this image; a scan of a Joe Ewers illustration from the book Ask Kermit: All About the Human Body, depicting the Muppets on a stoop that suspiciously resembles 123 Sesame Street. I'm hesitant to call this a crossover; really, it's more like a homage. Anyone else think so? -- Jon (talk) 15:44, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
- Well, if it is, I wouldn't consider it a crossover; like you said, more of an in-joke then. But, I don't think it's intended to be 123. It looks like just any regular stoop. Unless we can get confirmation that it's designed off it (like in Muppets from Space), then I wouldn't go for it. - Oscarfan (talk) 16:36, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
Regarding the obscure Fraggle Rock characters appearing on Muppets Tonight, I'm willing to bet that those are cases of using generic puppets for background fillers and not meant as a Fraggle Rock/Muppet crossover. Am I wrong? — Scott (talk) 15:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know. A background character from Sesame Street would never have appeared on The Muppet Show or on Fraggle Rock puprposelessly, even before the various character sales. What makes it different the other way around? Is Sprocket really a cameo in MCC or just a random puppet? Does it make a difference? I think any crossover use of puppets should count. -- Peter (talk) 15:31, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
- Well, thing is, the Anything Muppets have almost always been seperate, whereas in fact Food appeared on Fraggle Rock, the Inkspots have become as ubiquitous as Whatnots, etc. There's always been cross-pollination of Muppets (heck, more recently, Big Head was recycled on Sesame). Really, I think this whole page could use a definition of "crossovers." Do only mutual crossovers count? If Between the Lions is listed, why not The Cosby Show? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
- I don't think background puppets should count. With something like Big Bird in The Muppet Movie or the Sesame Muppets on Between the Lions, you're meant to say, "Hey, look, it's Big Bird!" But if Begoony appears in a crowd shot in Muppet Treasure Island, no one really cares, and it's probably because that's just one of the puppets that was handy at the time. They reuse puppets from production to production all the time. And yet, it does seem worth it to note Sprocket's cameos. So I guess there should be a definition of what consitutes a crossover. -- Ryan (talk) 17:00, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with Ryan. If someone really wants them to stay, they should be listed in a separate not-as-prominant section.
- Regarding why BTL, but not Cosby, that's a good point. Looking at it now, and thinking back to when I started this list, I hadn't really thought of clearly defining what a non-Henson crossover would entail. I'd be willing to let that section go if it doesn't make sense. Otherwise, the list can quickly become a copy of Category:Appearances. Unless the list is able to clearly define the nature of the crossover: for example, crossovers only count when characters are crossing over. So, an appearance on The Tonight Show wouldn't count, but it would allow for the inclusion of Cliff's Nightmare. — Scott (talk) 18:20, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
- That makes sense to me. As for the others, I think the biggest test is whether the characters appeared as "themselves," otherwise it's recycling, not a cross-over. Sprocket in Christmas Carol? Though brief, he barks and generally behaves like we'd expect Sprocket to, except he's clothed. On the other hand, we have Begoony as the child of mother Mudwell the Mudbunny and dad Murray the Minstrel, so clearly they're not making cameos but part of the ensemble extras. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
- I have been wondering if cameos by obscure Fraggle Rock characters should count. After all, most of them aren't fraggles, doozers, and gorgs, and casual fans probably wouldn't know that they originated on Fraggle Rock. I am also wondering if we should mention Sam, Harry the Hipster, and Yorick's cameos in The Muppets: A Celebration of Thirty Years, not to mention the background presence of the cast of Emmet Otter's Jug-Band Christmas in The Muppet Movie and The Muppets: A Celebration of Thirty Years. --Minor muppetz 19:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
- Michael, the page already says "several dozens of characters" appear in Muppet Movie. But for the rest, if you want to be more explicit, that's up to you. Frankly, I'm beginning to think a seperate section would be useful for multi-series appearances which clearly *were* intended as crossovers involving many characters in both speaking and background roles (Family Christmas, Celebration of 300 Years, and for that matter, the en masse TV appearances in Night of 100 Stars and Television Academy Hall of Fame). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)