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Archive of Andrew's talk page.
Hey, can you confirm that William was in Singin' in the Rain? If he was, then I can put it down in Projects with Muppet Cast Connections. Too bad we can't put it down in Movies with Multiple Muppet Show Guest Stars! Why weren't Donald O'Connor or Debbie Reynolds guests on The Muppet Show? It would have made things a lot easier! -- Ken (talk) 04:08, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Because it was set to three, it had two images down the center and then a third solo, then two and a third, and so on. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 17:52, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
- Aha, I just checked it in Firefox and you're right, it had three images in a row there, but not in IE. I'm reverting then (also I think I can fix that with the image settings; I thought it was general funkiness, though I usually do compare in browsers). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 17:56, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks! I was planning to mention it in my next e-mail update. But since you asked, it's already become one of the most beloved articles on Technologizer! It went past 40,000 hits the first full day (Tuesday, I think) and is currently over 90,000 (tapering off by now but still getting some readers). Over 1,000 people on Facebook liked it, over 500 reweets, favorable mention by IBM people on Twitter and even on the official Henson twitter feed. So it's been one of the highlights of the week! (That and Great Gildersleeve CDs arriving.) I'll have a check forthcoming, twice the original amount since it's been so successful. So huzzah all around! And isn't Rowlf striving to be ethical adorable? (The whole Rowlf film, really). Now I need to create a John Cameron Swayze page (before Nate beats me to it!) -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:11, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
Hey Kiddo, this is a pretty bizarre find if I do say so myself. I don't know much about her aside from what I put on her page (and that she did a liquor ad with Woody Allen and some adult photography. You are a whiz kid when it comes to the celebrity world, do you have anything to add to her page? I know its a weak page, but it is such a bizarre find that I just couldn't resist including it. -- Nate (talk) 00:11, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
Creature Shop Actors
I haven't started the discussion yet, I'm sort of plotting through my arguements, so if you beat me to the punch on starting a discussion its cool. I'm sort of poking around right now and making some notes and stuff. (plus I'm just getting over walking pneumonia, so fun times!) -- Nate (talk) 17:05, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
- I might get to it later tonight, if I feel like it. I already have it plotted out, just need to get it down, and also whether to dig up the list of questionables now or wait for the "Sure, makes sense" and then start the process. I'd kind of like to preserve "Repeat offenders," those who were in more than one Creature Shop Movie [excluding the "vague CG effects which are probably smoke maybe or wire removal" category which we do already], but that's a personal preference really, save some of the fun character actor pages, and Doctor Who connection in particular will take a huge beating, but I can fully understand rejecting it as a guideline. It will also make it a lot easier to know what to redlink for future page creation and what not to (and make it easier when a questionable addition comes up to just get rid of it right then), or for the bigger names just challenge us to keep an eye out for legit connections or references (which as you and I both know, is really the most fun anyway; Harry Secombe is one of my favorites in that regard, someone I never expected to include even as a reference). A little under the weather myself, spent yesterday afternoon recording off-stage TV voice-overs for a play, working on an article on IBM and the Muppets, and still stressed over three year anniversary of my master's degree-slash-joblessness. And walking pneumonia is never unmiexedly pleasant (I had it many many moons ago myself), so hugs and sympathy, yon Nate! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:34, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
Hey Kid, I was going to put this on the current events page, but I don't want to start a big discussion on something that might not be a big deal. Here's what I was going to post:
I'm bringing this up because I know we are trying to condense some pages to make for one big meaty fun page and not a lot of little dinky ones, but I feel it's shorting us in some areas. For example, if I were to go to the category Muppet Characters, the article count wouldn't accurately reflect the number of different Muppets created for productions. Right now I'm mainly focused on Little Mermaid's Island, and I went ahead and created categorized redirects for all the Muppets in the production. They are unique, individual creations, but there isn't much that could be said about them on an individual character page, but I feel they should be included in the "head count."So I guess I'm asking both permission or some sort of agreement that categorized redirects, within reason, are encouraged for folks browsing categories as a whole. I'm also wondering if those category redirects would then show up at the bottom "related pages" box. ”
I figured you, Scott, and Danny would be good to bounce this off of. I presonally really like the idea (like I said, within reason). Especially for cases like Mermaid (and also the unique Muppets of Telling Stories with Tomie dePaola which equally fascinate me since I found the page).
- I thought we'd pretty much agreed on it before. Do you want me to dig up the old discussion? It is something where one can get carried away in certain realms (we have redirects to Minor TV Mentions for convenience, but categorizing all those redirects in the larger TV Mentions is both kind of pointless and makes it seem like there's more page content than there is. Part of the fun of those pages is just going through the big list and either seeing what's there or finding an excuse to get your favorite show in there, as you know :)
- As for characters, that's one of those "Yeah, makes sense, we just forgot to actually do it!" situations. There were a few caveats, in Muppets mainly no entries for "Bunny #3" and basically what would qualify as group characters (Frackles or a musical trio whose names were maybe mentioned in passing once) would be categorized under one redirect, just as we do with the others (and of course, if someone thinks it's silly or excessive for a *specific* page, then it may be brought up, but as you know that applies to everything on the Wiki so that's no reason not to do something which has otherwise been agreed on.) The heads up is probably wise, though, just as a reminder and "Oh, now I see what you have in mind" rather than people being puzzled, but per that discussion, there should be no conflicts (I know Danny agreed; I think Scott might have but he might have missed it, but he's generally fine with it; we are cutting down on *pointless* redirects for spelling or an odd random phrase since they're affecting things like search and such, as you've heard, but categorizing existing redirects or adding a few new ones for organization purposes are fine). Also, in a case like this, no point in creating Max (Little Mermaid's Island), since we have Ambrosius. Yes, we have the "Same Puppet, Different Character" but we only do that when in fact there's anything significant enough to warrant that second page (in this case, it's not Max who's interesting, it's the re-use of Ambrosius). But otherwise, for other examples, it makes sense (and indeed, just wasn't really thought of when the dePaola crowd and others were merged). It might also help though to fix the page first. That is, so the redirect can go straight either to that character or the gallery (which seems easily reworkable). Common sense applies: Flotsam and Jetsam as a redirect makes sense and it would be amusing for folks to see, Flotsam and Jetsam doesn't. And so on. It might also help in that case just if there was, well, a little more on the page. I may help you with that (brief notes like "Scuttle appeared in the film; Buddy Hackett again reprises his voice") but we should ask Warrick and see if he feels like being more forthcoming (or rather doing the work), or MuppetDanny since he took the screengrabs, so he might be more inclined to help. Since the help would be either specifics as to the plot or character behavior in the episodes or, best of all, full cast and credits (unless they were omitted and IDs made based on recognition but since Clive Revill, who I'm so thrilled to have on the Wiki, was misspelled "Revell," that feels rather like "TV credits typo syndrome" to me, especially common with animation or "kiddie" shows alas). Who played Ariel, who voiced the new characters, were Flotsam and Jetsam voiced by Paddi Edwards (if so, leave her page for me, please!), were puppeteers IDed or more likely just a list. In fact, the project is reminiscent of the earlier Dumbo's Circus and Welcome to Pooh Corner, so I imagine there would just be "with the voice talents of" and a list of puppeteers/suit performers as well, but the voices can likely be worked out (and if there are any names in the puppeteers who are among our contacts or reachable online and so on, may be a starting point to fill in the blanks). But that's all because I just think it would help in that specific case (and also put it more on par with other merged pages, which have character sections). On the general principle, full agreement! Andrew Leal (talk) 20:17, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Huzzah. Pretty much my whole point to that was specifically for Mermaid and Strega Nona (which I soooooooooooo want a page to herself on here, but I might argue for that later. lol). I will pitch in what little info I can to the Mermaid page, and bug the others for more info. The project just fascinates me, and with the upcoming ride at the theme parks, I'm sure there will be renewed interest in all things Mermaid once again, so much like recently desceased celebrities, or Betty White, I want to snazzy up the page a bit for more traffic that might come our way. (and I'll leave Paddi Edwards for you if she did indeed reprise the eels, only because I got to do Samuel E. Wright and Betty White recently ;) lol)
- There are a few other random things I've come across that I felt should also be a categorized redirect, but the one thing I don't want are all the minor TV and Movie mentions. Those aren't needed in my opinion. -- Nate (talk) 20:27, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- And I just saw you created a few while I was answering (so why did you bother to ask? Humph!) Heh, kidding aside, I think Max the Sheepdog is kind of pointless (for categorization anyway; I suppose someone might want to use the search term but). He's not really an "Unfinished Character," he's a finished character moonlighting (which happens all the time), and he's not really a Muppet but a Creature (even when the characters may later hang out together, we don't recategorize, like when Philo and Gunge ended up on Dinosaurs). Also, see the definition and discussion on Category talk:Unfinished Characters. If a pilot was *unaired*, then the characters go in Unfinished but not Muppet Characters, since he thought that would be misleading. It sounded a little funky to me but I could kind of see his point. That was now literally *years* ago though, so feel free to ask him about that! Otherwise, it looks fine. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:23, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
A Higher Calling
Hey Kid. It's not high on a list of priorities, but if you ever have a chance, could you get a screen grab from the "Baby Talk" episode of Dinosaurs, specifically that of The Chief Elder and his council. It's about the only image right now that would work on the Supreme Court of the United States page. (although I'm sure other references with possible pictures will come up) -- Nate (talk) 22:11, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Actually, I may have something better. Though the council makes laws in that episode (and in another creates Potatoism), they're kind of a mixed judiciary/executive/general council of ruling fancy guys group. However, you overlook "Episode 213: What "Sexual" Harris Meant"... a lampoon of the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill hearings (and with a panel of WESAYSO corporate types filling in for senators). There's already a decent image on the page but there's a better one in the credits (if I can get it without the names over it). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:22, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
Thank God for cheesy 80s videos
What do you think about the discussion over at Talk:Sesame Place (Texas)? The Oak Ridge Boys filmed their video for "Thank God For Kids" at the park, and I've watched the video a couple times (those boys were kinda creepy. lol). The park is a major part of the video though, and I just can't quite figure out if it should just be mentioned on the Sesame Place (Texas) page, or maybe an article should be created for the video, under the Music Videos Category. I don't think the Oak Ridge Boys need their own page, since they just visited the park, but the video is so unique (and bizarre), that I'm just not sure what to do with it. -- Nate (talk) 21:54, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
- Wow, that is... something (and yeah, guy with Gene Shalit hair and gaucho moustache hiding behind Mickey sends off all kinds of warning signals. Don't go home with him, kids!) Anyway, it doesn't qualify for a music video article, since it's not an official Muppet video. However, since it mentions Big Bird in the lyrics, in addition to the video footage of the park (and especially the Sesame characters), it deserves a home on Minor Music Mentions, a page which frankly could use some visual brightening anyway, so screengrabs from the video would work. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:13, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
- I meant to leave a note on your talk page, but I figured you'd see it soon enough. :) When I get a chance, I want to go through and note other specific changes (mostly those that are noticeable to me, like name switches; there were some substitutions in the Rich Little episode of German celebrities, regardless of who he was doing, and since they weren't the greatest impressions in English anyway, why not?) But I'm sure you can add more (and I'm trying to research more on the voices; some friends, like the Disney Synchron webmaster and someone on the Synchron-forum helped with IDs, but other times, just listening, you can pick out Tina Hoeltel, for example, in a bit part). I haven't added dates yet, though I'm fairly sure one of the German TV websites had them (I used the order, which was the same as that site's, from the German Wikipedia, rather than go through my links or Googling to find the site right then). So if you have them or anything else, feel free to add!
- As you can tell, I'm getting back into the international stuff (you and Henrik and others adding goodies have inspired me), and I have new voice info for the French Fraggles (which frankly is my favorite adaptation, as I think I mentioned in the e-mail), but I prefer a lot of the German Muppet Show voices (especially Horst Gentzen, and even the bizarrely nasal "Danish Cook" by Storeck is fun). Sesamstrasse may be closer in sound (I have one of the first episodes, from the dubbed period, all dubbed street scenes and inserts and a couple German short films). I also nabbed several Die Dinos. I like the fact that they localized the signs, newspaper headlines, TV titles, etc. as well, so I'll be reworking that later to include title screengrabs and maybe an additional image per episode. We'll see, when I get around to playing around with it. Wheee! That's really the joy of Muppets (and Muppet Wiki). There's always *something* still to work on, you just have to find your area of interest or something you want to fill in (and I *still* have the whole English run of Dog City downloaded, to fully mine). I have other stuff going on this month, but I finally passed my driver's test (frabjous day!) so I'll have some more just Wiki/e-mail/research/screengrab time. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:30, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
- First of all, congratulations on the test! That's awesome. Secondly, I don't know of how much help I can be with the German stuff since most of my VHS copies are still in storage, but I'll be diving in along with you as soon as they get around to finally figuring out a solution to their legal issues and finally put the show out on DVD. I can't believe how long Disney is willing to wait to cash in on these, just because they're too stingy to buy the show's voice track (that's the rumor anyway).
- I always enjoyed the localizing of the signs and such on Die Dinos as well, though once they're putting it out on DVD over here, I'm pretty sure those things will sadly be lost to that medium (just as is happening with all the actual German on-screen titles to the Muppet movies). All that other stuff you got your fingers on sounds pretty interesting, too. Be on the lookout for another E-mail soon...ish! ;) — Julian (talk) 21:00, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
It seems as if Toughpigs still doesn't know that I'm on probation. Thanks to him, I had to create ANOTHER user to send you this message. Can you please unblock my "Drillbit Taylor" user and give Toughpigs a piece of your mind? I don't want to have to complain about him again. Thank you! - Ianmhaiki
- Ian, what's going on? Toughpigs is Danny and he has *not* blocked you, as I told you before. I also told you to contact someone if you had problems, not to create a new account. So please, next time you have a problem do not, I repeat do *not* create another account. Then you really will be blocked. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:45, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
- I'm sorry. NOW, I understand that my user can be locked down, because it's either to read only or blocked for a short period. I promise to NEVER create a new user again. Leave a message! Thanks! :) - Ian Mhaiki
- Ian, it's most likely because you are using a IP that have been blocked in the past, so it's the IP thats blocked and not your account. So whenever you experience it you will have to change your IP. And since you have been able to bypass it to continue to create new accounts you propperly know how. Henrik (talk) 04:41, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
Whew! Thanks for unblocking me, Andrew! - Ianmhaiki
- You are welcome, but you weren't blocked to begin with, not under that name. There's no record of a block whatsoever. Wikia has periodic downtimes for maintenance, and other issues can occur. Next time ask someone first or if you can't log in e-mail an admin, since multiple accounts are problematic. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:54, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
Alex1996 and Barneylove100
Hello! These two users are pretty similar as today, they edited Sesame Street Video articles with the exact same edit summary ("Editing a gallery"). Barneylove100 is a new account and was greeting by Wikia today. Do you think the account could be a sock puppet of Alex1996? Matt H. (talk) 21:42, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for letting me know. Seems he's done this before. Not a problem user (his edits have been mostly either helpful or harmless), but he does need to be cautioned (or if he's having problems logging in, figure out what it is rather than creating a new account). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:53, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
I'm very sorry to all of the users about the bad things I've done for you to keep blocking me. I don't wish to be blocked. I promise to do better. - Ianmhaiki
P.S. Please send in your thoughts if you want to say anything
I think we should put those listings somewhere, they may help in unearthing episodes somewhere down the line? Wozza 20:59, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Feel free to park them on the talk page if you like, but they're not part of the guide and don't offer any particularly useful information (even the airdates aren't that useful). We know the show ran from 1963 until 1966, so any episodes between that period (apart from those we've already identified) have untapped Rowlf material. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:08, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for adding captions to this :) The episode is on YouTube. Do you think you can tell if the voices for Ed McMahon and Robin Leach are really them, or if they're impersonations? —Scott (talk) 07:19, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Sure, I'll take a listen when I get a chance, and I'd definitely be able to tell (without listening, McMahon seems unlikely to be looped, but Frank Welker did a Robin Leach impression on a regular basis). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:23, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, both McMahon and Leach get animated torsos. I didn't think it was too far of a reach to guess that maybe they got the real people, considering they'd gone to lengths before. Maybe getting the celebs in a remote recording booth was easier than getting them on a set. But I defer to your judgment on the voices. Thanks for checking it out! —Scott (talk) 04:46, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
- I want to do some more checking with demos first (and when I'm more alert) before we make any definite statement (and maybe get ahold of the actual end credits, which sometimes but not always had "special thanks" or similar, but would definitely note if there was another working voice actor for that episode/season, since otherwise the only possibles are Welker and Berg and McMahon doesn't sound like either off the bat), but it seems like it's the real McMahon and a better than usual Robin Leach. -- Andrew Leal (talk)
Non wiki question about images
Hey Kid, am I on crack or do I remember you talking about an image portal online where you can put in an image to see what webistes it is on or something like that. Am I imagining such a thing? -- Nate (talk) 18:47, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
The Electric Mayhem
I love the Electric Mayhem! They are so talented, funny, and AWESOME! - Mayhemfan
Diary of a Wimpy Cookie
Hi! In the novel of Diary of a Wimpy Kid, which is a mixture of text and pictures, there's a drawing of the main character's little brother, who's watching TV, and saying (in a speech balloon), "C is for Cookie, and cookie is for me!"
So I know they didn't quote it exactly (maybe because of copyright), but would that be a book mention, a literary reference, or something else? I'd almost say "comic", but it's in a novel. What do you think? -- Ken (talk) 02:25, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
- His edits have been reverted and he's blocked now. - Oscarfan 15:17, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
Is this picture Wayland Flowers with Bernie Brillstein? Warrick just uploaded and I asked him on his page and he doesn't know, but it looks an awful lot like Wayland to me. If only he had Madame with him. I asked Danny and he didn't know either. -- Nate (talk) 20:00, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
- Having Wiki troubles today (it all looks primitive HTML-y and messy), but I'd say it's not him. Flowers looked more like a kind of deranged James Cagney. The smile is similar but the nose doesn't look right and he really doesn't match any footage or images of Flowers available online. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:18, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry to hear you're having computer troubles. If it clears up, can you help us out at Talk:Poverty cartoons? Danny was wondering why they're called that, and I can't remember if I read that that was the name of the studio. I can't find anything online, and I know that if anybody knows, you will! -- Ken (talk) 02:24, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help! I was going to move the page to "Poverty Pictures", but now I'm confused. Is the page about the studio, or the series of cartoons? I was looking around at other cartoon stuff we have, and I'm not sure where to place this one. We have a list of the Hubleys' cartoons on their page, but then Cliff Roberts has his own page, and some of his series also have their own pages. What do you think? -- Ken (talk) 01:24, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
- We'd handle it like the Hubley page, or Buzzco as I linked to. If there's a specific subseries, which is mostly the case with Roberts (the ones he seems to have done on his own, using the characters he created for the comic strip or a similar aesthetic), then they're covered on their own pages (and that gallery was really meant for characters, not sketches, but somehow a couple others got stuck in, and nobody bothered to make it thorough). I was just waiting to move to see if anybody else chimed in, but it looks like they may not. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:51, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
I don't know if you are into Andy Warhol or not, but I just found out something that fascinated me with one of his time capsules they opened in 2004, and I added it to his page. It's also led to a great mystery about the designer Halston, and a sketch I found on here he did of Miss Piggy in Jim Henson: The Works. I started a talk page at Talk:Halston if you might perchance know anything. -- Nate (talk) 18:07, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
If we don't bold characters cause of a re-direct, then why are Chrissy and Rockin' Richard bolded on Little Jerry and the Monotones? This site can be really confusing sometimes... Wattamack4 22:26, March 17, 2010 (UTC)Alex
- Nevermind; Danny took care of that on the page. Wattamack4 22:47, March 17, 2010 (UTC)Alex
- Yeah -- everybody is working on the site at the same time, so sometimes things can be inconsistent. You'll see a page where someone has done something wrong and we haven't caught it yet -- that doesn't mean that's a new rule. I agree that it's confusing sometimes; working as a group can be difficult, but we do things better together than we would on our own. -- Danny (talk) 22:49, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
- True. And yeah, it can be quite often something inconsistent isn't caught until a couple months later (I mostly learned that from the message you left on Deamo19's page about his suspension back in late 2006); I was mostly just a bit concerned because I didn't wanna stress myself out by getting too confused, but I get the idea now. Wattamack4 22:59, March 17, 2010 (UTC)Alex
I thought you might be interested in this: German dub, AVI-format - download all and extract #1! Not all original voices were available, but the Muppet Babies, ALF and Looney Tunes got lucky. :) — Julian (talk) 02:57, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
hello, and could you help me please.
Hello, my name is Donna Brown. This is my first time attempting to use Muppet Wiki. I would like some assistance if and when you maybe have time. I think maybe you can answer a few of my question and lead me in the direction I need to go. To give you a brief history, my husband has given everything to make my dreams a reality, all the while, i ignored his dreams. He has given me more in my life than i ever thought i would have. It is my mission now, to take his dreams and make them my own, and do all that i can to make them possible, but i do not know even where to start. i don't know this message will show up, and if there is a way to contact someone privately. If someone reading this does know how, please feel free to do so. Thank you everyone for helping me.
Hi, Andrew! I had a question about what version of Sesame Street they got in Japan. The page for Sesame Street (Japan) just says that after 30 years, they pulled what they had been showing, and then they started a co-production. But it doesn't say what they had been showing before that. Was it a dubbed half hour? A dubbed hour? The reason I'm asking is that I've now found evidence for 18 CD's of the US LP's. The CD's came out in Japan in 1991-1992, and some even came out again 2 more times, in 1997 and 1999. I'm curious what brought on that large number of reissues. I know of 3 Sesame LP's that were released the same year when ours were (the Columbia SS1, In Harmony, and SS Fever), and I'm sure there have to be more of those too.
By the way, totally off the wall, did you know that Disney reissued the Haunted Mansion story album (the one with Ron Howard!) on CD? I ran into it a couple of weeks ago, and I was going to get it for you, but I didn't know if you already had it. (I prefer the actual ride soundtrack album that's sold at the park!) -- Ken (talk) 00:26, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Hey, I finally ran across the NHK page, which explains it a lot more. -- Ken (talk) 01:49, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
Howdy Andrew: Just a quick question, were you a user formerly known as "youtubesuxx"? I'm just wondering because I heard someone mention that you were that user. I already know you have a YT account with your regular username Aleal though. Wattamack4 02:53, March 7, 2010 (UTC)Alex
- No, BuddyBoy etc. just assumed that for some reason (and in the process confused User:Emma into thinking I'd been banned from the Wiki!) It was one of our admins, but not me. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:59, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
- Oh, ok. I gotcha. Wattamack4 03:34, March 7, 2010 (UTC)Alex
You have ties
- I'm afraid no. I paid for a Newspaperarchive subscription, but McMullan's isn't an academic research site (or a presskit site that's more than happy to let any journalist, even an online one, have access as long as their satisfied with the details). Their "Commercial Service" requirement for access is much pickier (they need client name, circulation of your periodical, so not applicable to websites, how often it goes out, and on and on). The ten dollar subscription, to preview watermarked images and be able to buy prints, is actually far more within reach for us. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:48, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
Just wanted to say thanks for cleaning up the actor pages I created last night. I never thought to crop the photos since they were hi res. They look fantastic, and I am just happy to have some more theatre love on the wiki. -- Nate (talk) 17:08, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
- You're very welcome! Also, here's the press release/cast list for the 2009 run, so I'm sure you'll find some more goodies in there. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 17:15, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
Hey, babe -- we've had yet another go-round on Brad's "cover everything Henson does" trip, and after talking to Scott about it tonight, I realized that I absolutely have had enough of it. If you look at Current events, you'll see that Brad went into exactly the same routine that he always has, despite my explicit instructions for him to not do so.
I don't think there's a nice way out of this. We can't keep talking to Brad about this stuff -- he just keeps coming back with the same bullshit, and then when we're not looking, he goes and creates endless numbers of bullshit pages about stuff that we've all said we don't want to cover. Brad can be a good contributor when he focuses on stuff that we actually want to cover -- but he can't handle hearing "no".
So: The Cleansing.
Scott and I have made an executive decision: We don't cover anything on this wiki that the Henson Company has done post-2004. No Henson Alternative, no Jim Henson Discoveries, no Unstable Fables, no Skrumps, no Happytime Murders, no T.J. Bearytales, and no to the endless parade of pointless crap that they will produce over the next twenty years of our lives. Clearly we have to draw a very clear and specific line on this, or this will never stop.
So I went through and deleted as many pages as I could get my hands on. And then I left an extremely angry and menacing message on Brad's talk page.
In the process of doing this -- I'm sure that I inadvertently deleted something that I shouldn't, and it's probably something that you like, and I'm sorry about that. When this blows over, we can talk about some of that stuff and figure out what we really want on the site and what we don't. Obviously, anything that's been deleted can be restored if we decide we want it. But I need to show Brad that the way that he's been acting is not acceptable.
By the way, here's a start: Sandbox:Rechov Sumsum episode. I'll write more and figure out the links back to the US material. I guess one of our picture people can mess with the screenshots. -- Ken (talk) 06:37, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
- Actually, I planned to mess with it later, so leave it to me. I know which characters are which and who played them (and any questions I can check with my friend Victor who uploaded them), it was just finding an episode title that was an issue. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 07:16, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
- It is fun, isn't it? It depends as he gets time and energy (he'd promised me this one for a couple years, but circumstances got in the way and for awhile he lost the video file before he got down to working on it). He does translation work for a living (he knows English, Hebrew, and Russian, so he works amongst all three), so this was just a favor. He recently picked up a couple two dollar (roughly) DVDs of The Wubbulous World of Dr. Seuss and The Hoobs, so when he gets time, I've asked him to transcribe/translate the dubbing credits and scan the covers (or just send a link, since he knows his way around Hebrew webspace better than self). It's a lot easier than the subtitling work (he used the Wiki to figure out what the US sketches were but a few were absent) and some of the film inserts (like the flower thing) are Israeli-made just for the show. Lately his paid translation work has involved getting into the Russian version of Law & Order: Criminal Intent, which he told me was far from unmixedly pleasant (apparently Russian remakes of Western shows tend to stink as a whole and generally not make sense; a killer who was originally a bigot suddenly has a maniacal hatred for red-heads instead, which one would think in Russia would at least limit the targets, but oh well).
- As for the other matter, as you can see, I was aware of it, but I was waiting for Danny's input. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 07:24, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, I didn't mean to steal your thunder with the episode, but after I ran into the flower sketch, I started wondering if I could figure out which US classics they were showing, and then I started taking notes as I watched it. (I swear that Ernie and Bert laundry set was never used again!) I wish Plaza Sesamo DVD's came with English subtitles!
You have to know cool I think it is that Gay Purr-ee made it onto the wiki! And as a side note I love the advice for the baseball article. I tried last night to work on it, but had to many distractions. I've got some ideas, but we'll see how far and how fast I get. -- Nate (talk) 20:15, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, I was pretty thrilled myself! I got around to watching the Cyclia clip on YouTube and saw the puzzle pieces. I practically did a double take! I wasn't even aware they'd made puzzles for it (I have the LP though; I'm oddly fond of "The Money Cat"). And glad you found my comments useful! If I get a chance, I'll try to work on it some myself, but I might not. The integrated approach doesn't work for every article, and even then some of the book or animated insert stuff might stay as lists (Ice cream basically uses a mix of both as appropriate), but a lot of it can be. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:10, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
I saw that you reverted my edit on John Williams III, and saw the reason in history. I was more trying to replace the note with an eka. In fact, ekas should probably be put on all those sketches. As written it claims that that's the first episode the Q sketch appeared in. I think John-John's invovlement in the street scene could be noted elsewhere on the page. --Minor muppetz 19:18, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
- It works better in that list, since unlike the "One of These Things" bit, we have a specific episode with footage and details. If you want to reword it another way, feel free to do so, though. Just don't take out that note, since that's a loss of information. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:25, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Worlds of Wonder
Hey Kiddo. I didn't want to clog up Danny's page with more talk about it, but what press release do you have on Muppet toys for WOW? I'm just totally shocked at it (coming from someone who has the Mother Goose display for retailers and all the accessories, Mickey and Goofy and accessories, Snoopy and Woodstock, Julie (the doll that freaks me out because she can sense light changes and can be "tickled"), Laser Tag sets and more). Now I know when the company went under they cleaned out the warehouses of existing merchandise, but nowhere in any literature that I've come across have I heard about Muppet talking toys from them (except when dealers try to tell me the Ideal Big Bird is from Worlds of Wonder). I'm beyond excited about this (as you might be able to tell). -- Nate (talk) 20:43, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
- Patience, grasshopper! I didn't know about it all until I saw Danny add that book with "Worlds of Wonder." I'm still info gathering, so quotes, a description of the toys as they were shown to at least one magazine in 1987, and more will be forthcoming (I'm catching up on some e-mails and other things today, but it will come!) Yeah, it's always fun and exciting when we discover untapped worlds (and if memory serves Len Levitt and possibly another Muppet puppeteer/designer or two actually worked on the Worlds of Wonder toys, plus voice overlaps with Phil Baron and Will Ryan, and there was a weird live action special with fulll body puppets, so it's pretty darn thrilling). In the meantime, though, if you have any Little Boppers pics and specifics (I had one of the Baby Kermit somewhere but not sure I still possess it, and I can't recall if there was a Piggy), feel free to go ahead and create that! I remember the toys and know some basics but I haven't really gathered any details (I'm focusing on the other stuff right now, and Little Boppers will probably be tail-end since it's a lot more straightforward and non-mysterious). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:46, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
- Whew. That was a lot of work, and still some gaps, though it seems fairly unlikely that the toys made it out (due to Worlds of Wonder's financial difficulties combined with Black Monday). Anyway, Nate, have at Worlds of Wonder. The history is tentative so please do what you like to clarify or expand. I'll add a list of toy voice connections later, at least from Ruxpin; I don't own any of the Talking Mother Goose books to check credits. I may e-mail you to check yours for those, and see if the Charlie Brown books had names. I know the Mickey Mouse ones, no doubt due to Disney's then general policy of not crediting voices on their book and tape/record sets, were unbilled but had Will Ryan as Goofy, Pete, and others. Keep us posted on anything you see of the books, Ken, but they have isbn numbers and so on and so seem to have been published (it looks like they came out in advance) but either they were limited, later recalled, or just nobody really bothered to keep them. It's all pretty murky, but they were definitely designed exclusively for the talking toys (the tapes could still play on any cassette; I'd owned one of the Charlie Brown books and tapes years ago, which is why it seems they came out first, since they could still get some sales just as stand alone sets and advance publicity). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:29, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
The thought of Muppet Show talking toys from W.O.W just makes my sad, sad, sad. I would have died. Even as a teenager I am not ashamed to say I wanted the Ideal Sesame Street set, and when I finally got one I would sit and listen to them with my nephew and loved it. WOW is all I have to say. Now if only we can find out what happened to the line in production. Were they released overseas? They mystery thickens. I just cannot believe that these were unknown to me. -- Nate (talk) 19:58, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
- They definitely made it to the toy fair and folks seemed to have been impressed, then in 1987 everything went BOOM. It would be nice to think that somewhere there's a talking Baby Rowlf, perhaps squirreled away by a designer or expo person or who knows, just waiting to be discovered and loved, or at least go on the talk show circuit to tell the tragic story and plug his new tell-all, Unplugged. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:02, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
You commented on the Cheapest talk page earlier... If you don't mind, I'd love to have you chime in again on the basic question that I'm asking. I feel like I'm going around in circles with Brad, and what he's saying just doesn't make sense to me. -- Danny (talk) 20:19, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
Hi Andrew! I've been traveling for the last week and a half and haven't been around very much, so I apologize for being a little out of touch. I wanted to ask about blocking Marsupilamifan yesterday. I guess it turns out that he was blocked back in 2008, but looking at his contributions, he's done some useful things... Yesterday, he created a page for What's Inside? (song), which we didn't have before, and he did a good job. It looks like the big problem with him is that he keeps clicking "minor edit" on everything, which is annoying -- but is it worth an infinite block? Maybe yes; I just wanted to check in about it, given that his track record isn't that negative.
You also blocked Chefhannah715 yesterday, for one edit. The protracted Wikipedia-style "give people three chances" thing doesn't really work for us, what with our returning vandal problems, but in a situation like that we could leave the WP-style "thanks for your test edit, it was reverted" message after a first weird edit.
I'm sorry for second-guessing you -- and I really don't intend any criticism or offense. I'm just wondering if our recent problems with returning vandals is making us all a little trigger-happy. If someone is a known and long-standing problem, then obviously we block immediately. But I also want to think about whether that's making us bite the newbies. What do you think? -- Danny (talk) 10:11, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, I thought blocking someone who added something provably false wasn't biting the newbies, but if you think they're worth it, go ahead. But as for Marsupilami, who isn't a newbie, he was User:BuddyBoy600 (and a few other names which we did catch). I actually just monitored him for a week since he had matured a bit rather than blocking as soon as it was pointed out, but between continuing to add weird stuff and some odd talkpage obsessiveness, doctoring YouTube video clips (that's actually how I became aware of it, since another user took his clip as being real), and most importantly not following instructions from an admin (Enrique), it seemed worth blocking. By now "infinite" has become the default just because we deal with so many weirdos, but if you want to change it to a shorter period with e-mails, that works. It's been tricky trying to handle everything of late. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 10:28, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's definitely been tricky -- and now that I think about it, I don't think we actually have a standard for how we handle it. Maybe we should put together a simple guidelines page for the admins, to help us get on the same page. I have some thoughts about the Chefhannah-type cases; I'll go write them down.
- Guidelines would help, definitely (since we have been swamped, there's some newer admins, it's increasingly less common for multiple admins to be on at the same time so it can often be left to just one person to fix things, and it's important to make sure we're all on the same page, moreso even than with the general Wiki issues which can be threshed out in discussion but don't impact actual editing rights). I also thought Chefhannah smelled a little like a returning IP (I know Scott can check on those things but I have no idea), but it was fairly minor (in this case, as you may have guessed, since they were provably adding nonsense even if it was small, it was a matter of blocking rather than waiting around to see what else would need to be undone), so do what you think's best on that one.
- For Marsupilamifan, Enrique should definitely weigh in. As BuddyBoy, his original block (following several issues) finally arose from his adding false entries to episode guides and for changing this page to his own fantasies as a joke. His response was "I'm sorry. But I was too crazy." Since he's returned, outside of ignoring Enrique and leaving "Ok" comments on his user page but doing the same things again, he has been much better. So there's still a trust issue, especially when he's added things that can't be verified and *sound* like they could be right, but it's not sure. But it has been over a year, and kids can mature. Checking shows that early under the Marsupilamifan account, he left you odd messages about DisneyWiki and left a "Can I be an admin" request almost as soon as he joined, but since then outside of the habits we mentioned, he's mostly been calmer (though he's uploaded some of his own YouTube videos in odd ways, it's been to talk pages and not to articles, so it's pointless but not harmful). So maybe communication with him would be worth a try if you think so (though I'd prefer you or Enrique handle it, frankly; haven't slept well and you're better experienced in that area). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:42, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
Hey Andrew, I noticed you took out my edit of Prell being Sophie's performer.
I just want to make it clear that Prell wasn't on SS just during 1980-81. However, she was credited only during those years. Yes, I know it's hard to believe, but she apparently returned briefly sometime in the '90's. Although I have no official source on this, I have two segments to prove my point...
- Hi! We don't use guesses, and in fact Karen Prell's own resume supports her involvement being limited to that period. So I frankly trust Prell's resume over your ear. At one point, her official website had an e-mail address but it seems to be gone. If you still have it and would care to contact her (and I think others around here may know), and in the extremely unlikely event she says yes, that's a source. Otherwise, it's a guess. In fact, it could be Stephanie D'Abruzzo (as via her demo, and others have confused her with both Fran Brill and Karen Prell, or it could be Julianne Buescher; it's definitely her as the goat, as you can tell the same voice more or less was used by her when she played Sherry Netherland), who was definitely on the show in that period. But at this point, we're all playing "Insert Female Muppeteer Here," which is exactly why we don't get into these games. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:56, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah. Actually, I think it's more likely to be Julianne. I'll admit when I first watched the Bowl Full of Zero video, I wasn't sure who was performing the goat at first. To me, it sounded similar to Karen's Great Grandmother Bunny character from Tale of the Bunny Picnic, which led me to think that was her. However, I also noticed the puppetry of the goat. I mean, it is good, but it's ever so slightly amateurish. And from what I've read here, she was new to The Muppets at the time, so (no offense to Buescher) you'd probably expect as much.
- Apologies for overlooking Buescher, and completely jumping the gun saying it was Prell. I've never realized how similar they're voices are. But it goes to show that you obviously have the better ear, and the better logic. Again, sorry for the mix-up. -- Jon (talk) 06:50, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for catching that. I was just doing some reference on that and making sure it is Tony's restaurant in the movie. Did you see my question at Stan Freberg too? -- Nate (talk) 20:45, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, apparently a very early trailer had the announcer calling him "Mr. Busy," but model sheets and the animation scene breakdowns and everything just called him a beaver. At least Wikipedia actually had kind of a source, but their Disney pages can be nuts, and IMDb too. Someone awhile back managed to get in a whole bunch of fake voice credits for The Jungle Book, including characters from the Kipling stories who didn't even appear in the movie, and I've given up, after months and nearly a dozen attempts, trying to remove a false claim that Jack "Popeye" Mercer is in Pinocchio, apparently because one barker has a croaky voice so a user submitted it (and it's easier to get random guesses or personal delusion into IMDb than it is to get it out). Never mind the fact that Mercer was a Fleischer contract employee, never worked for Disney, and at the time Pinocchio was made and recorded he was in fact in Florida working on the Fleischer's Gulliver's Travels. But you know IMDb. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:57, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
- Awww, thanks. I feel loved. (Quite a few folks used vibrato "croaky" voices in the 30s, whether in radio or cartoons, and in fact Mercer wasn't even the original Popeye, though he was the best and ad-libbed much of his dialogue; the croakier William Costello originated the part and sounds closer to the Rough House barker, but it's not him either). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:17, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
Hey Andrew, I saw your edit on the "Good Morning Starshine" page about the linking to Fuzzyface (which by the way, I have also made a couple links as well but will fix later), which has actually brought me up to this question, do you think we should just re-direct "Fuzzyface" to Grover? Because after all, his character in the first season was never really intended to have a name, and since "Fuzzyface" is pretty much a fan-based name as far as I'm considered, it makes me wonder. Wattamack4 20:16, February 19, 2010 (UTC)Alex
- Like I said, Fuzzyface is a rumor page and that's why it's there. We have it precisely to disambig. So redirecting it to Grover *or* using it as a link as if it's an actual character doesn't help. Just link to Grover, unless you're actually referring to the rumor itself (at this point, we're not clear when precisely he acquired the name Grover but it's the same character; really "early Grover" also tends to work better than proto Grover in those statements too). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:17, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
- Oh, I see. Well, I wasn't sure cause Fuzzyface pretty much seemed like a fan-based name to me (and I know we often don't use fan-based names on this site), so I was unclear if we should've just re-directed it to Grover instead. But now I see, and I guess that works too (and I actually like that statement better than "proto-Grover"). Wattamack4 20:26, February 19, 2010 (UTC)Alex
- Re-read what I said, Alex, and read the actual Fuzzyface article if you haven't. It's a rumor page, and it's designed precisely to address the origin of the term and the claims that this early "green Grover" is a different character. That's why we have the page. Redirecting Fuzzyface to Grover would not address the issue, just reinforce the assumption that "Fuzzyface" is an actual name for early Grover. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:45, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
- Well I already knew it was a rumor page, but didn't think it would make people belive that was the official name for Grover if it were re-directed. Nevermind. Wattamack4Alex
- Yes. That's the point of redirects, really, you're equating something or else because a page has been merged (in cases where several characters are covered on a group page, for example). The Fuzzyface page serves a purpose, but not to be linked to as a character, and outside of the confusion issue, making it a redirect to Grover erases that purpose by eliminating the text. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:24, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
E-mail this user
Okay, so I'm not going crazy. I was trying to e-mail Jon through the wiki, but I couldn't figure out why I couldn't see "e-mail this user" on his page, but I saw it on yours, Wendy's and mine, and I finally realized that it won't show up on people's pages if they haven't chosen to be contacted that way. I think that means I should get off now. Happy Ash Wednesday, even though I'm Protestant! -- Ken (talk) 08:07, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
Hey, why do the Plaza Sesamo VHS tapes say "en vivo"? I thought that meant that a show was on live TV. Did they mean "live action", as opposed to animated? -- Ken (talk) 07:29, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's exactly what they meant in this case, as far as I can suss out, and I think also as a way of noting that the frame scenes were new, not clips. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 08:01, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
Didn't realise performing guessing was speculation. I took out the Oz reference as well cause it was pretty much another guess on who it might be. If I had some kind of program that could seperate their voices, it'd be much easier to tell. Or if any of those albums credited who's who. Wattamack4 22:41, February 14, 2010 (UTC)Alex
- We include performer identifications by ear only when there's no doubt whatsoever and no disagreement, when it's quite clearly Oz or Henson or whoever. If you're arguing based on how dominant the voice is, then it's not something to include. I haven't heard the album version, but Oz is usually easier to distinguish than any guess as to Robinson or Cerf or whatever (but yeah, if they're mixed chorus voices and you can't tell, don't try to guess). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:45, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, speculation on the talk pages (as long as it isn't merely "I think it's A or maybe B or maybe C," random name listing, which does crop up) is fine and on rare occasions even productive, but generally, when it comes to one-liners or chorus or other very minor voice roles when it's not obviously a distinctive voice we're all familiar with, it becomes a matter of guessing and a subjective issue (how it sounds to a given listener, which as in cases like Talk:Astoria, varies considerably). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:06, February 14, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, I see your point. Looking at it a bit carefully, the really high-voiced Monotone might be more easy since it sounds a bit like Miss Piggy a little (but that's only my guess, however. I originally remember thinking it was Kevin Clash doing the voice), while the low,nasaly-like voice is probably a bit more un-recognizable since it's only heard once (though to me, it does sound a bit like Roosevelt, though I still originally remember thinking that was Joey Mazzarino). Whoever it was, I guess it doesn't matter for now anyway. Wattamack4 00:45, February 15, 2010 (UTC)Alex
I know you're working on a bunch of stuff, but when you have a free moment, can you pull out any Plaza Sesamo DVD's that you have? Working on the transition from Genius to Warner got me to thinking about the Spanish stuff, and now I'm finding library sites that say that they were handled by Ventura and Sony, and they even show Sony numbers that fall between the US numbers, which I find interesting, since I've never seen them for sale in the US. I'm curious what the UPC and catalog numbers are, and which companies are credited on the back. No hurry, but if you ever pull them out for something you're working on, please let me know. Gracias! -- Ken (talk) 07:57, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
- Hi! Well, I happen to have Me Gusta Ser Yo at hand right now, which is a Ventura release. The Plaza DVDs were definitely sold here, but the border does have an advantage, and a few I'd seen on Amazon (I can't speak on some of the ones I don't own, like the Copa Sesamo DVD, which I Netflixed only). The number under the barcode is small 6, 3499128162, small 1. I have no idea what that means, and that's the only number on the package (the rest is copyright info and Ventura's address). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:30, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, the Ventura ones are laid out like most US DVD's with the number on the spine, so I was able to figure out the ones that match the one you gave me (Vamos a Cantar). But they all seem to be out of print now. Is anybody handling Plaza videos right now? According to Worldcat, some of them mention Sony, and one even says Warner Brothers Mexico, years before the US deal. The Sony Wonder ones make sense, because they were during their US deal. But it still seems like a lot less titles than we have, and I've also been wondering why the 1993 tapes haven't been reissued on DVD. On a related note, I was impressed at the number of Random House titles that were mentioned on Warner's site, which I hope means they're going to keep them in print. I'll have to spend some more time at the library to figure this all out! -- Ken (talk) 05:15, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
How many years have I been on here and I've never noticed Kit-Cat Klock one time? I hang my head in shame. What a great little article I never would have thought of! -- Nate (talk) 17:05, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
- Glad you liked it (and thanks for correcting the spelling)! It inspired me to upload a better picture I've had sitting around for a few months (in an episode in which Eliot Shag faces eviction, the surly building super taunts him with Shag's own Kit-Cat!) -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:40, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
Le Bébête Show
I stumbled across this by accident today on here. Just a little blurb on the page for Le Muppet Show. It talked about Le Bébête Show, and when I did a little wiki research I was kinda shocked. A total spoof of the Muppets. There is a fair amount of information on the web, including a wikipedia article. What are your thoughts about having some information on this somewhere on the wiki? -- Nate (talk) 22:33, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'd meant to cover it in detail ages ago but then just plain forgot entirely. It's kind of the unholy love-child of The Muppet Show and Spitting Image (the fake Kermit is especially creepy). So if you feel like starting a page, go ahead (it certainly qualifies as a TV Mention), though it would take work to break down which politician became which Muppet and the rest of the details (which is probably why I'd just left it at the blurb). But if you feel up to the challenge and going through assorted French language articles (I'd be cautious with the English Wikipedia page, which didn't exist at the time; try to compare the two if you can, even if separated by Babelfish, unless you know someone who can translate), go for it! Adding info on dubs is less complicated (just requires knowing key terms like "doublage," "voix," etc.) -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:51, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
Marx Brothers question
- I'll get to it when I have a chance to dig out my VHS of Monkey Business. The visual is striking but I'd like to compare the whole scene (given things like Hungerdunger etc. though it seems pretty likely; probably Jerry Juhl's idea). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:45, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Hi! I brought up the question over on the Marx Brothers page. It's been on my mind for a while, and just finally decided to ask. In the scene, Groucho's annoucing as if for a boxing/wrestling match, I believe, rather than a baseball game as in The Great Muppet Caper. But, the scene is on YouTube here if you don't get the chance to check your VHS.
- On a side note, The Marx Brothers Silver Screen Collection is probably one of my most cherished DVDs, aside from my Muppet discs. :-P --Justin 05:18, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing Bill Cosby! I almost had a heart attack until I found out that it was an internet rumor that was all over Twitter in the middle of the night last night. After realizing that no legitimate websites were saying anything, I went to bed. -- Ken (talk) 02:08, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, it smelled fishy and I googled and reverted (especially since someone had registered just to add that; I won't block unless they try it again since one can't tell if it was hoaxing or genuine confusion, but the inclusion of so many details not even in the Twitter buzzing suggests a hoaxer). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:46, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, apparently, Twitter is known for being the place where people spread celebrity death rumors. Johnny Depp has "died" before, and Bill Cosby has "died" 5 times! At one point, somebody even linked to what turned out to be a fake CNN page. I was on a rollercoaster ride for an hour and a half, waiting for something real. Finally, I figured out it wouldn't be happening! Oh, and this morning, even Bill had a comment about it on his website! -- Ken (talk) 04:51, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
- Okay -- it's fixed, but the new code hasn't been released live to the site yet. That might not happen until Wednesday, so I turned off the new Create Page extension until then. So now you shouldn't have any skin problems, and by the time we turn CP back on, that bug will be fixed. Sorry for the inconvenience -- I'm really glad you told me about the problem. -- Danny (talk) 19:54, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, for sure! We didn't realize how big it was because it was only happening on wikis that had the new Create Page feature turned on. The skin problem doesn't seem like it has anything to do with CP, so it didn't occur to me that it was related. We only figured it out when we turned on the new CP sitewide, and suddenly we got lots of complaints about the skin. -- Danny (talk) 20:41, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
Hi! I can't believe nobody's found this yet! I finally found a way to get Charo on the wiki! Watch this clip, especially at 4:45. I'm still watching other clips, but I think that's a start! (I still wish we could confirm if she did the Spanish versions of Jazz Numbers, though!) -- Ken (talk) 03:55, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Hooray! I know we'd talked about it, since it seemed she *must* have worked with them some time in some context. And now we have it! Good work, Ken! I'll be glad when the Slim Pickens Hee Haw clip surfaces myself. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:36, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
- I didn't put her birth year and real name, because there's some controversy over her age, and her real name is huge, so I didn't know how you wanted to do that. Also, now that I'm thinking about it, have you ever seen any Jazz Numbers in Spanish? Does Plaza Sesamo show them? I can't believe they've never shown up on YouTube. I hope I didn't imagine them! -- Ken (talk) 05:56, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Ah, I missed the age issue, so yeah, we leave it out in that case (and likewise, we don't *have* to include real names for famous people, especially if it's awkward and the connection is slim but fun, since that's easily found on other sites). And I've never seen any, but I'll let you know if I uncover anything. I know they did more than a few Spanish-only segments specifically as part of the bilingual curriculum on Sesame itself (usually paired with the English version). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:05, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, I remember a lot of the speech balloon ones being shown in pairs with dubbing or different animation, and the 4-armed guru counting to 20 is all over YouTube. If any of your voicechaser friends ever run across any Sesame voice work Charo did, please tell them I'd love to know about it! -- Ken (talk) 06:33, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Yep, I'd seen them (and added the category and did some clean-up). I'm glad to see we have details on the first issue too. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:40, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, Kate has everything she put up, but Danny wasn't sure if they were worth making a page for every issue, so she made one for the first issue, and he liked it. I started looking at our magazine section, and I'll have some other questions soon, but this week is nuts, between the first new WB title starting tomorrow, and Danny just told me the 3-CD set's back on! I knew the Warner deal would spark other stuff! -- Ken (talk) 05:56, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
If I could walk that way, I wouldn't need the powder
Hey Andrew. I thought you might have fun with this too. Walk this way is something I came up with last night. I was watching A Celebration of Me, Grover as I was drifting off to sleep, and they used the gag. I wondered how many other times it has been used in the Muppet universe, and it amused me since we don't really see the full "walk". I thought I'd start a page, and I have put it in the sandbox now for two reasons. One, I need to watch the Grover bit again because I don't remember the exact context in my drowsy state, and the other is that I was hoping folks might come up with some other gags (there is a Count von Count elevator bit, but that's the only other one I can dig up). I figured you might know of a few examples, maybe even from Dog City (since you are our resident expert on that).
If we think it's a lame page, we can toss it, but I thought it would be fun in the Movie References category, and one of those wacky pages that we have fun with around here. -- Nate (talk) 21:30, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Synchronicity! I just did a little clean-up on that myself! Mostly clarifying so it doesn't seem like Mel Brooks really is the most notable example, just the most frequent in recent decades and thus the most familiar to modern audiences (there's countless older examples, usually involving butlers, including at least one Abbott and Costello movie). One of my own personal favorites is a variant used when Jack Benny was a guest star on Lucille Ball's show. It played on the by then also well-established jokes about Jack Benny's walk (Phil Harris: "You could put a dress on that guy and take him anywhere"), so when Lucy says "Walk this way," Jack pauses, turns to the audience with one of those famous looks, and says "I always do!" -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:34, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
- The connections of uses and how they tie into references by the Muppets was mind boggling when I was going through the wikipedia article. Nick and Nora Charles, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Drawn Together, the list was too fun. And it's a great old time Burlesque/Vaudeville joke, so of course I love those connections as well. I was hoping you might could come up with a couple Muppety ones. -- Nate (talk) 21:41, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, and the Wikipedia article barely scratches the surface (focusing more heavily on recent stuff, no doubt because that's what the casual users felt like adding). One would think they'd used it at some point with, say, Sweetums or someone like that. So I'll keep an eye out for it next time I go through The Muppet Show or any with a mansion/old dark house-type context (always a favorite setting for the bit). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:43, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
Sweet. I just picked that DVD up last week, and it was just a joy to watch. I am sad I hadn't gotten it before now. But it was four bucks in a discount bin, and I like to buy my DVDs cheap. lol. There were so many fun little things in the video that I sent a text to my email with a few of them to make sure they were listed on the wiki in their appropriate places. I'll move the article out of the sandbox since its a keeper. -- Nate (talk) 21:48, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
- And it's already growing rapidly! I was thinking there *might* be one in one of The Tubmans of Porksmith skits, given the fact that they involved a quavering old butler, but I couldn't check them easily. I'll try to find it later to screengrab, or else get the numbers DVD with the Count skit, so we can actually have an image of the walking itself (in the Grover DVD, the movements are too fast for me to screengrab clearly). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:29, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Good question. We had a discussion waaaay back as far as tense for Muppet/Henson series and concluded that we used the present ("Fraggle Rock is a TV show.") "Was" seems most appropriate for pilots that failed to sell or projects that were abandoned. I think originally, with Dragnet and other shows, the idea was to distinguish if a show is on the air or not, but that becomes moot. Looking at it, it may depend on structure. Dragnet uses is and fits the phrasing (it *is* a pioneering police procedural etc.) whereas Gunsmoke uses was, but it ends with the fact that it was one of the last radio dramas (where present tense doesn't work). So generally, is, and especially in simple statements ("Blank is a show which ran"), was only if context demands it ("Blank was the first show to feature Jim Henson's Muppets as well as juggling armadillos.") In a case like Gunsmoke, we could probably reword easily to standardize (first sentence, "Gunsmoke *is* a Western series which began on radio and went to TV. It *was* one of the last network radio dramas, ending in...") Does that make sense? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:19, January 25, 2010 (UTC)
The woods, as usual
- Yeah, it broke out in a veritable rash. I've mostly been working on the wartime book proposal today (nearly done, but had to step away from it) so I'm glad you took care of some of it (especially the kid; that was a nice message, since I do kind of feel bad when it's obviously not just some nut or jerk but an over-eager kid, in actual age). I finally realized what was, sort of, up with that Zippo guy (who's done weird stuff before anyway); apparently it's because the 40 Years book quotes Fierlinger as saying "I made my first film for Sesame Street in 1971," and he assumed that somehow referred to Teeny etc. So apart from the big violation (ignoring messages and correction), he didn't know how to read/digest information properly either. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:12, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
Birth year format
Hello! Say, do you know if there are certain guidelines on birth years articles, such as what the format is? For instance, when a celebrity has a stage name, is "(b. 19XX)" placed after/before the bolded stage name (i.e. on Ice-T)? Thanks, Matt H. (talk) 21:14, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
- Hi! Good question, and I may try to say more later (I'm trying to work on something else off-Wiki), but yes and no. There are certain loose guidelines but never formally ratified, so to speak. In general, the rules on celebrities is only birth and death years, not full dates (we save those for the major Muppet Wiki-relevant people instead, the puppeteers, designers, Sesame regulars, Jerry Juhl, Joan Ganz Cooney, etc.) Not all celebrity pages note their stage names (and a lot of them had them) but usually two bolded names is to be avoided (right now Frank Oz is like that, but while it can be debated, it makes more sense as an exception since he's a major topic for us and it's the leader text before several long subdivided sections). My own preference is usually to either a) work the birth name into a narrative format (like on Slim Pickens) if the article warrants it (since by now Pickens is more obscure to most Muppet Wiki visitors than Ice-T) or have it follow the main name used for the article title. Bob Hope works well, for example, while Tony Randall in my opinion should be reworked so it's clearer. There's also inconsistency, as you can see, as to how many dashes or spaces to use when separating birth and death dates, so i twould be worth bringing up at Current Events, but in general, the format currently used on Ice-T is messy and ugly (the fact that he's a rapper and the stage name is more obviously not what he was christened at birth is a minor complication, but it can and should still be reworked to avoid the double bolding). That's more than I intended to type now, actually, so I should get back to other things, but I'd say feel free to play around with what looks better on Ice-T (you might also look at Mark Twain; different since he's deceased of course and was more apt to maintain a distinction himself between his birth name and penname, but still useful) and then bring it up on Current Events (then if we can get agreement on firm guidelines, we'll add them to the Policy and Guidelines or Style Guide pages for future reference). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:40, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks for the answer! However, I was kind of hoping for an answer about the "(b. XXXX)" being placed before or after the celebrity's real name. The Ice-T article currently reads: Tracy Marrow (b. 1958), better known by his stage name Ice-T. Would the year be placed after Tracy Marrow, or after "Ice-T"? I might have been asking for the wrong thing, but who knows? :-) Thanks, Matt H. (talk) 01:41, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
- It looks good! The main logic in my suggestion, by the way, and reason I approach it slightly differently than say Bob Hope (who changed his first name) is that the subject was definitely not born Ice-T. One could argue that "Ice-T" as a persona was born on such and such date, in the way "Mark Twain" didn't exist until Samuel Clemens wrote his first book under that name; that may sound picky and of course we have tons of cases of stage names, but only a few that were specifically chosen *as* stage names for such a specific purpose or sound but never intended to be confused or assumed to be the subject's birth name, compared to many who say chose something that was less "ethnic" sounding or whatever, and more often than not those names were legally changed as well (which again doesn't apply to Ice T or, say, a wrestler and so on). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:38, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
Other Genius videos
Hi! Do you know if there have been any other Unstable Fables or Jim Henson Discoveries titles released or planned? The reason I'm asking is I think Genius is probably out of business. Their website has a date of 2008 on it, and the Sesame stuff they have on it is from a while ago. And I don't see any new Fables or Discoveries titles on Amazon, so I was wondering how to update Genius's page. I updated it to say they used to handle Sesame stuff, but I didn't know about other stuff. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 04:26, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
- Hi ho! "Jim Henson Discoveries" died with that one endeavor, I think (which is just as well; I still think it was really false advertising and a lot of upset consumers, taken aback by the storyline and visuals and such, apparently bought or rented mainly on the strength of the Henson name when that was literally all they had to do with it, the name). Genius did put out some new Christmas DVDs of their Classic Media properties (Gumby, Fat Albert, bad new George of the Jungle), and a Christmas special which had previously had a limited TV airing, Little Spirit, and so on so I don't think the company is out of business: just bad at updating their website and actually letting people know about their products (which is likely one of the main reasons Sesame switched over; given Henson Company's own sluggishness in actually completing anything announced, if they do actually come up with any more Unstable Fables or such, I wouldn't be surprised if it was through Genius). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:49, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks! I can't find any physical copies of recent Genius stuff, and I couldn't figure out if they were owned by Vivendi, or Weinstein, or what was going on. (I kept reading different things on the web.) And then it was like they disappeared as far as Sesame stuff, at least for pre-2007 reissues. I kept hearing about new editions of the old Sony stuff (like Christmas Eve), but I never saw it. And now all of a sudden, stuff is showing up in Genius editions, but with Warner transition stickers on the back! I guess for whatever reason, there was a lot of unsold inventory, and Warner assumed it all as of 1/1/10. I'm curious if they'll keep the previous cover design, or change it. We'll know on Groundhog Day! -- Ken (talk) 05:27, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
- No problem. I'd forgotten there was a "Sesame Street Behind the Scenes" even (which could have been named more clearly, but I can't think of anything better, and everything's already organized a certain way so it seems simplest in this case to keep to the distinctions in the category definition). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 08:22, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
Hi, Aleal. The only reason I'm called TenCents is because I started this account on TUGS Wiki (look it up). A character on TUGS was called TenCents. However, I could use the nickname "Faker Fraggle". Is there a way to change signatures? --TenCents 04:06, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
- George Peed never did, just the bizarre fake Muppet proxies on the likes of Irwin Sings Sesame Street Hits (I kept forgetting what the duck was called and calling him "Danny," for alliteration I guess; Irwin doesn't make a lot of sense, but then so few aspects of those albums do!) However, there's some interesting background there. Although best known for his prolific (and often strange) Peter Pan artwork, George was the brother of the legendary Disney storyboard artist/writer Bill Peet (who also did some children's book illustration, but is likely best known for scripting 101 Dalmatians). He'd done some uncredited assistant animator and design stuff at Disney and then worked for Trans-Lux on The Mighty Hercules TV cartoon before finding his true niche.
- And some of the HB albums were along the lines of those Good Times home videos and the like you mentioned, using stories that were associated with Disney but actually public domain, so you had "Wilma Flintstone Tells the Story of Bambi." But what I really had in mind was this album and its ilk (the "Jolly Holiday" cover did indeed substitute Wilma for Mary). My theory for that album, at least, is likely HB made an arrangement with the Shermans. While I don't imagine Disney would have been exactly thrilled, it feels like less of a rip-off/competitor than just a bizarre melding. It's kind of like discovering a 1960s record of Popeye performing "The Addams Family Theme." -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:29, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
- That's right! I forgot to ask you about the Flintstones Mary Poppins record! That was the only time they did a competitor studio's songs! (I also always wonder how the Chipmunks got away with doing Whistle While You Work, with no songwriter credits, on their first LP.)
How do I upload videos onto here?
- You don't need to upload the video, a link to it will do (since in fact that's all the uploading actually does, embed a clip; if the clip itself is gone, you can't directly upload a file from your PC or anything). For the record, however, the tool is here, and as you can see it's pretty straight forward. Also, have you looked closely at the policies and guidelines page? Look at the "embedding videos" discussion, and that should probably be expanded on, but the rule there is the same we have for the transcripts policy. Don't add anything that's commercially available on video/DVD that's still in print, unless it's from Sesame Street's own official YouTube channel and the like. And the problem with that goof anyway is that it hinges on voice identification, so embedding the video wouldn't be proof anyway (and definitely not that Frank Oz "most likely" puppeteered the role). That's something to thresh out on the talk page if there's an issue and if a consensus can be reached as to whether the voices switched or not. -- Andrew Leal (talk)
Sorry if I added confusion to the page move thing. I didn't realize quite all what was going on til I saw your post to Scott this morning and then did a little more research. I'm going to go back and remove the delete tags from the talk pages too. I've always hated the (disambiguation) in an article title myself, and maybe we need to bring that up on the community events page now, unless you think otherwise. My idea has always been if someone types in Mother Goose, it should be the disambig page leading them to the various Mother Goose characters, as they might have wanted Mrs. Goose or the Sesame Street puppet version and not the one from Mother Goose Stories. -- Nate (talk) 16:02, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
- Oh, it's no biggie. This has been discussed a lot before, though, as you may have noticed, and in fact there's a note about it in our policy page. Plus, as you can see, a lot of it is the fact that I'm trying to get Alex to understand basic Wiki procedure and terms (I wouldn't be too surprised if those particular pages end up that way, but one comment is not a consensus and doing it manually can often mess up page histories, which is why it's better if admins do it).
- I'm pretty partial to the primary use rule, which was easy to enforce with Frazzle since everyone who types that would reasonably expect to see the character, not a disambig, and anyone who wants the song can find it easily either in the text or by making sure the "other uses" is linked on top. That's the reason for that and why there was a consensus for that approach as a policy in those cases, as with Dorothy. Same with many other examples (and even in a case that right now *is* a disambig, Gladys, several users thought Gladys the Cow really is the primary use). A more obvious example (and one linked on [Muppet_Wiki:Policies_and_Guidelines#Page_titles the policy page]) is The Muppet Movie, where clearly that's the first thing most users would look for and anything else is spin-off merchandise (albums, books, videos, etc.) Looking at it and in most of those instances, we actually don't have "(disambiguation)" pages for those yet, which in some cases might be helpful but usually it's all in the appropriate larger category. 123 Sesame Street (disambiguation) is also a good example, since 123 Sesame Street referring to the brownstone is the primary use, and most of the links on that page in fact deal with merchandise based on the building. This was discussed on a few talk pages (re characters mostly) and current events and a consensus reached (with, as always, the note that it can sometimes depend on a case by case basis), but none of those are linked on that page. I have a lot on my plate but I'll try to link to them later.
- The two cases where Alex had *already* moved without asking or fixing links (he started the talk boxes only after I firmly urged him to do so) at all are kind of gray, but as was, all links to Captain Vegetable pointed to the character (whose page mentions the song prominently) and all links to First and Last to the remade sketch (not the song which has a song page and a link to the Sesame video website; there's plenty of cases like that where we use a "See also," when it's just two pages especially, and not even a disambig at all, but if we need to, we stick it on the top, again usually considering what most users will be looking for and/or what uses on the Wiki actually refer to; we have a lot of users who'd type in First and Last and still expect it to go just to the sketch).
- Mother Goose by now has appeared in so many forms that it *is* a legitimate question (when that started, there were maybe four uses); the Mother Goose Stories puppet appeared most often, but I don't think we can honestly claim it's the best known or remembered or even most linked to on the Wiki (most in fact likely associate it with just the nursery rhymes in general). So you can bring that up on a question. Mostly this is about policy, discussing things, *not* assuming something is settled after a single response and two days, and basically just trying to teach a well-meaning but still learning user. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:25, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
I was going to put this on Current Events, but it seemed kind of OCD, so I hope you don't mind my telling you. I was in Target yesterday, and I saw some Genius DVD's with Warner stickers on the bottom of the back cover, with some generic fine print and a date of 2009, covering the Genius information. I guess this is what they're going to do with the remaining old stock. I just hope the classic era multi-disc sets don't go out of print. I've never seen a Genius version of Old School 1, and now I don't know if Warner is going to bother to re-press both Old Schools, since the Old School DVD's were packaged a little differently than the way Warner does it. I think they could reissue the 40th set, since the individual cases are the same type that I've seen for some other TV show sets. Oh well, this is the kind of stuff I live for. By the way, we're going to get ISBN's on the back cover again! -- Ken (talk) 05:39, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
Happy Late Elvis Presley's Birthday!
Hey, you missed all the fun last night! Danny and I were talking about what to do with Peter Pan records, and I realized that we didn't have a place to put the singles that go to LP's like Songs from Sesame Street Vol. 3. So I created Sesame Street Cover Singles. Then, Brad was wondering why cover albums were in the same area as albums that actually have licensed audio from a "real" Muppet album. So we now have Cover Albums for sound-alike records that have titles like "Songs from Sesame Street" but aren't official, and Album Appearances is for when they actually appear on an outside album. I think they both make more sense this way, and it's easier to see what we don't have. So I just thought I'd share that. -- Ken (talk) 21:42, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
- Nice work! I know that had been a longstanding issue, how to deal with those oddities (my favorite is the one with Danny the Disco Duck or whatever Peter Pan called him). So hooray! Actually, I'll have to check, there's that second Disney cover album, a sequel to Rubber Duckie and Other Songs from Sesame Street. It's mentioned in the Mouse Tracks book you blessed me with, and I think I have or saw the album cover on e-bay. Now that it has a better home, we should fill that in. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:42, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
- By the way, any thoughts on the paragraph below? I'm going to talk to Paul, and I think we should keep foreign book and tape sets consistent with US releases, meaning that the US book page will also have US audio, foreign book and foreign audio all in one place. But since these also appeared on Dutch CD's, those CD's (which already have a page) will link back to the US page (which is what they do now anyway, since the titles are translated on the CD's page). -- Ken (talk) 02:21, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
My Big Mess
Here's something I've been wanting to ask you, but I wasn't sure how to explain it. Ernie's Big Mess is a book. It later became a book and record set. It also became a Dutch translation. It also became a book and tape Dutch translation. A long time ago, Scott had mentioned that we don't make separate pages for book and record sets that come from previously released books. However, Paul made a separate page for the Dutch book and record, Ernie heeft rommel gemaakt (book and audio). Complicating things is his note that the Dutch book and audio is different from the Dutch book version. I would prefer to give all book and audio titles their own pages (since to me they're individual record and tape items), but if it's better to put them on the original US book page, is there a way to combine all of this without losing anything? Further complicating things is that some of these were also released on CD's containing 6 previously released stories. I guess I could put the information there. I was just wondering what you thought, since I think Holland is the only country where we have a book, and an audio version, of something that we have a US book, and audio version of. Sorry if this is confusing. Thanks for your patience! -- Ken (talk) 07:03, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
You want some Walnettos?
- Yep. Just as Jughead Jones and Ed Grimley do. It's amusing when we have fictional celebrities! While we track them on the page of the same name, when they warrant an article of their own, they count. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:36, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
Hey, if you look at The Sesame Street Songbook, you'll see that Brad changed my link to Simon & Schuster, and made it Simon & Schuster. It looks exactly the same to me. Is he seeing something I'm not? I've noticed several people making these kinds of changes. -- Ken (talk) 02:54, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
- It's not intentional, it's another one of those weird "What You See Is What You Get" editor automatic things (since you and I don't use that, we have the old settings, we don't have the issue). So yeah, there's no point to those, you can fix them. It's basically a bug. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:39, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
Hey, on song pages, are we using the earliest year we know it aired, or the actual copyright date on sheet music and/or records? A lot of the songs on Sesame Street 1 actually aired in the 2 months of 1969, but the records and sheet music say 1970, except for The People in Your Neighborhood. -- Ken (talk) 01:50, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
- That's a good question. Copyright date if there's no other source and it's otherwise sheer guesswork as to when the song aired, but if we know for certain it aired earlier, then the earliest date (or else omit it if there's uncertainty); if you want to note known discrepancies, that could be included, but that's less important than being accurate and/or avoiding confusion. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:00, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
Over on the Santa Claus page, the last picture in the chart mentions A Muppet Family Christmas airing on December 24, 1989, as the Muppets All-Star Christmas Reunion. Was that a working title? The "Family Christmas" page shows the 1989 title card, but that was also "Family Christmas". My white Disney TV book doesn't show it under that other title either. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 05:27, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
- Responded. And happy new year approximately more less given time-zone specifics! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:50, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
The Great Train Robbery
Hey Andrew. Looking at "The Great Cookie Robbery" today I got to wondering if there were other references to The Great Train Robbery, but I couldn't find any. I even watched the episode to see if they used any footage or did a spoof of the famous ending, but I came up with bumpkis. Are you familiar with any references I might not be aware of? I would think they used footage on Muppet Babies at some point in time. -- Nate (talk) 19:44, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
- I (Schfifty) am not completely sure, since I haven't seen the short film, but there might be footage (see the 1:39 timemark at ). Matt H. (talk) 21:19, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
Hello, and Happy New Year! I'm trying to insert a gallery of screenshots on Episode 204: The Great Cookie Robbery. I don't know the proper format, so I was wondering if you could help me. Thanks, Matt H. (talk) 06:50, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
- Never mind this post. I just discovered the errors myself. Oh, and happy New Year! Matt H. (talk) 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays
- Awwww. Thanks! We opened presents already (we usually did on Christmas Eve because Christmas Day was spent cooking and getting ready for company; now that there's no company, we still usually keep up the tradition, depending how we feel) and I received my copy of the 40 Years book (checked in mainly to add details on the DVD, in fact!) Hope you have a blessed holiday as well, and the new year brings new references to mine! If you hadn't seen it already, take a gander at Theodore Bikel. Pity no clips have surfaced yet, but hopefully some day. I figured you may or may not want to play with it a little. And I was saddened that Arnold Stang died; true, 91 is a great age. He actually voiced one Sesame Street insert (as a mad scientist creating a letter H) but Danny tends not to care for one-shot voice pages unless the played an established character or were in multiple inserts. I need to get to Brittany Murphy (Good Boy!) too (if only because right now that will help our Google hits!) -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:49, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
I replied to your message. Please don't hesitate to tell me if I'm doing something wrong. I always want to do whatever I can to make your jobs easier (and hopefully more fun!). Anyway, I didn't forget about the e-mail I promised you, but I'll probably get to it in the next few nights. Talk to you soon! -- Ken (talk) 07:11, December 23, 2009 (UTC)
- Good heavens! I never would have pegged that as a direct reference! Now I have the song in my head. I'll have to add some tidbits to that later (for example, one of the trio, which apart from Kovacs changed frequently, was often Jack Lemmon). Thanks for pointing it out! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:17, December 22, 2009 (UTC)
Hello! I'm trying to alphabetize the subcategory Category:Muppet Babies Games in the Merchandise category. I tried saving the options, but it isn't showing the orange highlight on the arrows. Do I need to wait longer, or did I now correct something? Thanks, Matt H. (talk) 19:08, December 20, 2009 (UTC)
- Hi! Since all those categories begin the same way, we've been using this format (but only for the Muppet Babies Merchandise category, not any general categories they may also fit under which encompass other shows and productions: games, books, records, etc.): [[Category:Muppet Babies Games| Muppet Babies Games]], or whatever the item is in, so it isn't lumped under "M." It's fixed now. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:14, December 20, 2009 (UTC)
Just a quick question...
What exactly is "speculation"? Never really heard that term before... is it like assumptions? Wattamack4 00:57, December 20, 2009 (UTC)Alex
- Close (for a more precise definition, you can always check in a dictionary or the online equivalent). The verb has various meanings but in that context means to theorize about the causes or reasons for something, but without any actual evidence to support it. Speculation is fine on talk pages but should be avoided in articles, since it generally boils down to just guesswork. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:19, December 20, 2009 (UTC)
- Ah, ok. Now I see. I'll keep that in mind for the future. I tried looking up the definition on Wikipedia, but it said random definitions like money and other confusing info. Well, thanks for letting me know. Wattamack4 01:50, December 20, 2009 (UTC)Alex
- Merriam-Webster is more reliable than Wikipedia, though as I said there are multiple definitions, depending on context. The Webster site has the same content as the print dictionary and its very user friendly (if somewhat annoyingly ad-littered). I'd definitely recommend it as a resource. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:57, December 20, 2009 (UTC)
- Alright then, that sounds good. Wattamack4 02:48, December 20, 2009 (UTC)Alex
Hey, I'm trying to figure something out. Apparently in 1974, there was a dubbed version of Sesame Street in France that's different from the co-production 1, Rue Sésame, which didn't start until 1978. However, in the French discography, there's a record from 1974, but it's also called something like, "Songs from 1, Rue Sesame". Did they use that name for the first dubbed version? My only other explanation is that they reissued this record later under the later title when the second show went on the air. Since you're the dubbing/international expert, I was hoping you knew more. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 02:50, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
- Hi! The first dub was Bonjour Sesame (France) according to newspaper articles and reports which used that title. It's possible either that specific record is misdated or they'd already decided on a switch by then but the co-production hadn't aired yet (as far as I can gather, and it's blurrier than the histories in say Germany and the Netherlands, they used the same voices and dubbed segments, just added the "Rue" scenes and no doubt new dubbed material and so on). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:52, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
- Okay, I found a scan that Paul sent me a long time ago, and the record label says, "Réédition de 1980", so it must be a reissue. I'm going to work with Paul on these. I've also found some fan sites that have record scans, and I'm glad my French is a little better than my German or Dutch! Merci, mon ami! -- Ken (talk) 04:03, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
- Hey, I just had another thought. It seems to me that International Book and Audio, which is a category page, should be a record chart, like International Sesame Street Singles. Can I rework it, or would it cause problems? I wanted to ask before I did anything. -- Ken (talk) 04:17, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
- Hey, feel free to work something up as a sandbox page. But looking at the two, there's a big difference in that there's more info (cast lists, production credits, complicated track listings in some cases, in several it's basically an album that also came with a book) so I really don't see how those pages could be merged into a chart, even looking at smaller ones like [[Bert en de gebroken theepot]] (of course, a chart as a complement is another matter). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:22, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
- No, each title would keep its article. I just wanted to make it look like our Sesame Street Book and Audio Sets Discography. I started thinking about it because I think Paul had some Dutch book and tape sets stuck in the Sesamstrasse album chart, and they don't really belong there, and I was thinking of where else to put them. But I should probably finish the French stuff first. It's funny how I haven't felt like working on foreign stuff for a long time, and all of a sudden I've got a bunch of new ideas! -- Ken (talk) 04:31, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's the thing, if the category were dumped, some of those would have no place to go, but making a page like the Sesame Book discography (which doesn't actually replace Category:Book and Audio) and adding it there makes sense. Sure, go ahead! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:37, December 19, 2009 (UTC)
Happy Hanukkah! I can't believe I've been here almost 3 years, and I've never noticed something before: We don't have any category or pages for Sesamstrasse Video titles! Either that, or I can't find it. The reason I was asking is because I saw Julian working on a German-only Ernie and Bert Christmas special, and I thought it would be cool to see if I could find a copy, but there's no area for German videos. So can I start a rough list for now (thanks to Amazon.de), and then see where to fit it in? Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 04:59, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
- Sure thing! Go forth, and know Sesamstrasse better, man! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:07, December 13, 2009 (UTC)
Direct Letter Connection
Hey Andrew. What are you thoughts on connections via a producer? I know that for people like Walter Matthau or Woody Allen who have no direct connection to the muppets, we don't list them in the connections sections on pages. But what if someone was a producer? I think its a direct connection, but wanted your opinion. Basically I'm referring to David Letterman, who produced Families Stand Together: Feeling Secure in Tough Times. -- Nate (talk) 21:15, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
- And now that I think about it, should we stick him in the celebrities category too? -- Nate (talk) 22:14, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
- Hi, Nate! Take a look at Category talk:Celebrities, but you're right. Any direct connection (and that includes behind the scenes work or stuff like the celebs who sent in recipes for Miss Piggy's cookbook) counts. So yeah, he'd now be a celebrity and a producer and he can be listed in any connections list (and Matthau will never count but Allen actually does as an Our Place guest star! But wait on that, since I need to dig up the rough details, no real specifics, but I've confirmed that Rowlf introduced and at least briefly interacted with every guest on that series; with some of those other guests it would be better to wait until we can check on details, but since we already have an Allen page and content, a slim direct connection just means we can now change categories). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:00, December 11, 2009 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for catching the mess that the Rich Text Editor made of Katie (Student). I've restored it for now so the techs can get to it easily. Danny and I have a list of bugs we've been reporting throughout the day. —Scott (talk) 23:31, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, I saw the current events note after I deleted it, so I'll just note any more examples there. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:38, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
So how was the special? When did the Muppet stuff happen? Do any celebrities that were in the special get pages, or only the ones who were actually with them? Sorry for all the questions. I haven't seen it yet. I hope we get a rerun soon! -- Ken (talk) 05:33, November 29, 2009 (UTC)
Also, a music question. I ran across a song by Derek Webb, who's a contemporary Christian artist, and he sampled Bert talking in one of his songs. Would that still go in Minor Music Mentions? I wasn't sure if that covered sampling of actual voice tracks. -- Ken (talk) 04:39, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
- Belated hello! Actual sampling does go in Minor Music Mentions (it's basically the aural equivalent of when Muppet clips appear in a fictional movie) but I think that's been answered by now. As for the special, it's set to be rerun, here at least, this weekend, Sunday I think, so keep an eye out! It was pleasant, what I saw of it, a nice mixture of Christmas hymns, carols, White Christmas, etc. (I could have done without the mocap Christmas Carol segment, but that's me). The Muppets were fun but just one segment so they only interacted with Bocelli and Foster. Miss Piggy popped up during the pledge drive bit, though! I'll probably add screengrabs later if someone doesn't beat me to it. Annoyingly, there were no credits for the Muppets apart from a "Special Thanks: Muppets Studio" bit (compared to full credits for Mary Blige who was performing remotely, more or less) so that seemed a bit unfair, but then it always has been a bit inconsistent as to when the Mupps get credits when they appear in specials or just a "Special Guests The Muppets" kind of thing and nothing else. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:33, December 3, 2009 (UTC)
Charlie McCarthy reference
Hi Andrew: I'm putting the citation back because when I did it originally, I was following Danny's lead for the Spike Jones page. Also, the reference appears in the text and in the figure caption; this is by design, in case more references to McCarthy are found and added. Many images have no captions, let alone citations, and discerning their origin often requires a careful reading of the article.— Tom (talk) 19:37, November 28, 2009 (UTC)
Why do we have the Spanish episodes of Sesame Street. I think maybe there should be a spanish muppet wiki for them. - Purplemonkey8899
Okay sorry I kinda got all up in his face. But you mean I can do stuff like that on my page? If you would like would you be a character? - 
Media:Episode 3470 -- Readers Of The Open Range Visit. 3/1/96
Hello! I was wondering if anyone can upload a bluelink file, with descriptions, picture segments, e.k.a. and a new file to this redlink, under season talk (1995-1996) that has never been written, by annonomous contributers. -- User:Muppetartsfan1
- Hi again. See the message I left on your talk page. That shouldn't have been a redlink to begin with. It doesn't call for a template so I deleted that. Tell me what you'd like to do, outside of requesting someone to create a full episode guide for that show, and I'll try to help you. If it's just the request, you should use your user page for that. Basically, if anyone actually does have the episode *and* has the capabilities to convert it to a DVD or other format *and* to make screengrabs *and* the time and energy to do so for each segment and describe the plot (as you can see, that's a lot of work and depends on a lot of factors), it will happen when it happens. That's just the way it is with Muppet Wiki. When/if it does show up, I'll leave a message on your talk page. Thanks! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 17:58, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
Hi Andrew, I don't know what "Sesamestreet.org for Number 5 Day (May 15, 2009)" means. Does this mean the Count's Number of the Day segment for May 15, 2009 featured the number 5, and in that segment he called one of his bats "Louis"? I looked at sesamestreet.org before I added the citation tag, and the only "Count's Number of the Day: 5" clip that I found made no mention of Louis. I tried looking through other segments, but their search engine is so random that it doesn't return the segments in numerical order, etc. So what exactly is the reference?— Tom (talk) 22:02, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
- You're right, I just reworded slightly, but the sentence itself was the citation. Any reference to "[Blank] Day" on Sesamestreet.og refers to the main page intro video where a Muppet pops up and talks about the theme for the day, reflected in playlists, games, etc. So that's the source, but I added the date since these things don't last long and are never archived anywhere (sometimes the "Day" will last for much of a week, sometimes less, but it's always temporary, and in this case there's no way to check how long it lasted so I went with the date that it was added by Steve per the history, since I can confirm it was live then but not how long it lasted). You can see another example on Koko the Penguin, but Scott, who's good about these things, added the full date range. That would be a good thing to bring up on Current Events as a reminder, to always add dates when referring to a web clip or message that changes regularly and is not archived (or add to Muppet Wiki:Style Guide, since it's not something that needs consensus or can be disputed, it's just something some users forget to do). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:08, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
This might be a Current Events question, but I wanted to run it by the English major first. Should we italicize the names of toys on their pages? How about board games? I'm seeing it done differently all over the wiki. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 05:42, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
- That's a mistake, yeah, toys should never be italicized (it would be like italicizing Oreos, Swiffer, or McDonalds, or any other product which has a brand name). Video games always, since they're treated the same way as film titles, and there are established rules on that. Board games? There's definitely no rule that says they should be italicized, and of course the only issue ever arrives with those owned as copyrighted titles (not with chess, parcheesi, etc.) In ad copy and websites, the companies themselves usually leave it alone or include the (c) or (TM).
- Wikipedia sometimes italicizes but there's no rule that they should (and they're inconsistent too; a glance shows they italicized Clue and Monopoly but not Scrabble). My own gut feeling is this: Don't italicize on merchandise pages (for, say, some game called Ernie's Twiddlebugwinks).
- When discussing something like Monopoly or Clue, if discussing the game franchise as a whole in a phrase, you might italicize it if it's needed for clarity (or basically, when it's in the same way we discuss "the Star Wars franchise"), and that's just a maybe, if it's felt by others that it's needed. Definitely not if they ever come out with a Muppet Show Cluedo (Sam the Eagle *is* Col. Mustard!) anymore than we would for the other games not based on something famous. Go ahead and bring it up on events if you like, though, or just ask Danny to see if we need to. You've looked at the pages and I haven't, but can you tell who's italicizing and who isn't? It sounds to me like it could just be a matter of adding the extra marks when coding the heading or the same people forgetting what they did earlier, rather than any intentional style conflict, and thus may be less a matter for discussion than just a reminder. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:59, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, I haven't looked inside any pages yet, since I wanted to ask what the "rules" were before I started changing things. I saw Danny adding a lot of stuff, and it just seemed to me that something like The Fraggle Rock Game looked funny not being italicized. But I'll look around some more. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 06:15, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, really, it shouldn't be italicized, by proper rules, though sometimes these things walk the line between being product name or titles, but there's no grammar style guideline that they should. Anyone that does does so for reasons of their own aesthetic or stylistic preference, which isn't always a bad thing (way back, we decided how to handle TV shows, TV episodes, and films, for example, using a mixture of established guidelines and what was practical for our purposes) so you can suggest it if you like. But the lack of it for board games (as I said, video games or, say, an interactive book or something with a game element would be different) isn't an act of omission, so to speak (boy I'm pompous tonight). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:23, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
- Okay, I'll make that one of my ongoing projects. I got sidetracked tonight, because I found out that the Muppet Christmas special from last year made a soundtrack, but it's download only. So I had to figure out how to write that up, and now it's done (and I have a feeling we're going to see more download-only albums in the future). Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you that I love that we both had the same reaction to Jim Henson's Clorox Commercial! The first thing I thought of was Fibber McGee and Molly! -- Ken (talk) 06:34, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, Andrew, for pointing out that I can edit the file or talk pages of images to leave details that most people don't need to know. I feel better knowing that the information is there is someone wants it!— Tom (talk) 03:10, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
- I actually filled that in awhile back (I thought of mentioning it to you but I recalled you didn't like working with their viewing software). I still need to fully mine them episode by episode, though I did add a lot of characters and fully overhauled my favorite episodes (and the environmental episode was very forced or "Yogi's Gang"/Captain Planet-ish, i.e. gangster dogs littering and Artie going overboard forcing everyone to recycle, compared to the better handling of the same issues on Dinosaurs). If you ever do feel like tackling it, I think you'd get the biggest kick out of "Who Watches the Watch Dog?" I'd also recommend " Ya Gotta Have Hart," which really has fun with the Duck Amuck premise and fate of a fictional character (and I have a ton of screengrabs I need to add from it, including an involved superhero comic with Ace Hart as "Wonder Dog," plus an uncredited Jerry Nelson as a French film director!) I may get to those in the next few weeks (hope to see if I can get some examiner writing done or something that will lead to even a few cents; the frustration and despair and lack of any prospects is getting overwhelming again, though Wiki work is a pleasant escape). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:32, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
Hi Andrew: I agree with putting back in the Statler and Waldorf bit, but I'll also add something about many other references to Shakespeare. Regarding the "References" the last iteration of the "concensus" about headings was that "References to" was to be used when both References and Muppet mentions sections exist or where the article is longer than one page at a typical screen resolution (Danny Horn's suggestion). My screen is 17" viewable and I'm using a resolution of 1280 x 1024, and the article is longer than one screen length and only likely to get longer. What do you think?— Tom (talk) 21:01, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
- There are no Muppet mentions, it's redundant and patently obvious with a short leader head, and take a look at the text I added before your last edit: "In addition to the named plays above, which have been referenced many times, there have been assorted references to Shakespeare himself, his work as a whole, or one-shot references to other works." That covers Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, The Merchant of Venice, and everything else that has its own page, so nothing else is needed. I'm afraid I just fail to see how you think anyone could possibly be confused on this page and need additional text in the heading to clarify, even moreso when I'd just added text *below* the heading which makes it even more clear. I don't see how you think a consensus guideline applies here when we'd decided to take it on a case by case basis (Danny just included a few possibles) and I don't see how the article getting any longer makes it more confusing, especially when there are the neat subheadings. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:10, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
- I agree in part, but I was also following the guidelines, as set forth in the "Current Events" discussion. The discussion has been silent for some days, so I thought it was settled. Obviously I don't want to argue with you and would rather that you take up this topic again on "Current Events" if you are still unhappy. By the way, I made a mistake. My monitor is 21" viewable on the diagonal :)— Tom (talk) 21:20, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
- I just brought it up again. Silence doesn't always mean consensus, especially late in November and with a ton of other Wiki issues to occupy admins and others. Again, Danny said "proposed guidelines," a suggestion, not a firm rule, and one which I also think you misinterpreted, but I re-opened it so Danny and Scott can weigh in (and preferably others, but nobody else seems to care or notice; I may ask Wendy, who tends to pay a lot of attention to stylistic matters, to take a gander). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:25, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
Happy 20,000 pages!
Hope you're well. Did you hear that Edward Woodward passed away today? I saw it on Yahoo, and I was surprised that somebody didn't get to his page before I did. (Usually you and Nate are first with the obituaries.) Anyway, it's always great to see you working on all kinds of things, and I just wanted to say thanks for all of your help, and thanks for helping us get to 20,000 pages! -- Ken (talk) 07:16, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
Disco D - source
Hello: I am the source. The name is Dwight R.B. Cook. I am the lead singer on the Disco D clip. The contractor for the voice over was Howard Roberts who was one of the musical directors of Voices Inc. that was a touring musical theatre troup out of NY in the 70's. Grenoldo Frazier was one of the perfomer/pianist at that time and I was an actor/singer with the group. The three of us did the vocal session and I was fortunate enough to be tapped to do the lead vocals. -- User:Trikatrod 00:18, November 15, 2009
- Thanks for the details! Sorry for the reversions, which probably seem knee-jerk. We've just gradually established careful guidelines for sourcing (which, combined with registration, saves us from a lot of the guesses or nonsense that pop up on Wikipedia, say), though we've also used a lot of firsthand info from performers or crew who've registered, it's just not always apparent from a user name. Plus we do a lot of "voice chasing" by ear and another user thought the lead sounded like Muppeteer Richard Hunt (I checked the clip on YouTube, and your voice is in a similar range but not identical). I fixed it, and if you have any more details you'd like to add (there or on any other segments you may have worked on), feel free! Apologies again! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:32, November 15, 2009 (UTC)
- Even a man who is pure in heart may make a spelling error, regardless of the phases of the moon, though possibly influenced by the migration of geese. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:00, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
Hi! That Betsy Loredo page looks great! Thanks for taking it and running with it! Max riverbottom 19:21, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
To the show, that is. Two things:
1) I finally started a Krazy Kat page. I didn't know if you'd seen it. Anything you can add would be great!
2) The Newshour with Jim Lehrer did a piece on Sesame's 40th tonight. They also said they're going to have some additional content on their website. I want to make a page working all of that together, so would that be TV Appearances and Online Content? -- Ken (talk) 05:28, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
Hey, I saw your note on David Alan Grier about the confusing new category system. I don't like it either, but did you know you could turn it off in your preferences? Just thought I'd let ya know in case you wanted to use the old school method. —Scott (talk) 01:17, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
- I did not know that. Thanks! That would make it a lot easier on me. In this case, I had to just delete the existing categories and re-add them manually, whereas in the old method I could just shuffle. So hooray! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:20, October 26, 2009 (UTC)
See you in the funny papers!
Talk talk talk
It looks like moving the "Current Discussions" box into My Home has helped to perk up the active talk pages a lot -- all five of the Hot Spots are for talk pages right now! I'm really glad you brought that up a couple weeks ago; I think the combo of Hot Spots and the Discussions box is keeping us more focused on the talk pages than ever. -- Danny (talk) 00:19, October 17, 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's really lovely. It helps a lot that you can see at a glance how many people have responded to a talk page, and I know I've personally found it a lot easier to keep track of these things (and I think Scott and the others have too). I'm glad Scott came up with that, it really is the perfect solution. And apart from the housekeeping standpoint, it's just more fun when people discuss these things rather than they're getting ignored and dying, and when we get input from more folks than just you, me, Scott and/or Brad. A variety of different folks have been weighing in lately and that's always a good thing. So yay us! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:25, October 17, 2009 (UTC)
I love Flapsole Sneakers! I wish Stan could have written for the Muppets! I think he would have been perfect! Anyway, can you take a look at my question there? Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 04:19, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
Chin up. I'm with you on the breakdown. I said goodbye to 25 incredibly gifted and talented kids after months of doing A Year with Frog and Toad with them, and I'm surprised just how much they get under you skin. Rest, get over your cold, and just try to keep you chin up :) -- Nate (talk) 02:26, October 5, 2009 (UTC)
- Awww. thanks guys! Planning to spend most of the week recuperating. Play finally ended but I barely got through the last night what with all the junk, and the set striking was kind of the last straw. Still, it was a great experience and I still managed a decent performance and netted some compliments. I'll definitely miss the little ensemble we had, but I'll get to see most of them at least one more time on Saturday and hope to keep in touch with at least some of them; two of them still have DVDs they borrowed from me, after all! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:59, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
I was going to mention this in your conversation to Danny, but it was getting kind of long. I didn't know if you knew that you can sort Recent Changes to bring up just the talk pages. If you hit the button next to "Namespace", you can choose all kinds of things, and it just shows that. Hope this helps! -- Ken (talk) 01:25, September 30, 2009 (UTC)
And thanks for cleaning up the active talk pages! I keep wanting to, but I'm always afraid I don't know enough to make a decision as to when to take the talk box off! -- Ken (talk) 01:28, September 30, 2009 (UTC)
- Looking at the history, that's how it's been since Nick started the page, and none of us really looked closely enough at it to notice before. He probably meant to say something but left it as a fragment. As is, it's rather awkwardly organized (attention is drawn to the bold subsectioned lists, thus why we missed it). Feel free to rewrite! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:55, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
Good to see you!
I just got back from D23, and I wish you could have been here! I'll write a longer e-mail soon, but 2 tidbits I found out are that The Muppet Show Season 4 is coming soon, and there's going to be a new CD of Muppet songs performed by current singers in a kind of tribute album. It's not Manhattan on CD, but it's something. Talk to you soon! -- Ken (talk) 03:34, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
- Wow, I'm so glad you could attend! I owe you a lengthy e-mail myself, but we opened Witness for the Prosecution this week. Today's matinee was it until a Thursday line-through, so I have some free personal time again. It's getting smoother with each performance, though as I've indicated, the overall experience can best be summed up somewhat euphemistically as "interesting." But it's been great to be on stage for the first time in over a decade *and* know that I'm actually delivering a decent performance which audiences enjoy. I have some record news for you too! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:49, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
Removing the talkbox
Would you mind telling me what you specifically did on my discussion page, Andrew? Something about a deletion since it hadn't been responded to in twenty days. I'm a bit confused. Care to enlighten me? Garrettk41 05:33, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
- No deletions of anything, just the talkbox removed. We have a huge backlog of active talkpages, when in fact, as it says right on the category page, "talk box may also be removed if a question hasn't been answered after a week." Obviously we sometimes fall behind on that, but it is policy, and a query for voice ID which hasn't been responded to in that time, which requires both a user with time to watch the whole clip and a good enough ear to make an ID (and I couldn't even hazard a guess) is basically a dead discussion and not active. I could have said "Talkbox removed, nobody answering" which we've also used for this kind of thing. That's all. Nothing personal, and don't feel bad that you received no answer. A lot of those kind of queries are just unanswerable without insider knowledge (especially recent skits where the roster of female voices has expanded but can be harder to ID). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 16:25, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
- I see. Makes sense I guess. So you're saying that you yourself don't know who does the voice? Garrettk41 16:50, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
- Right, I said that "I couldn't even hazard a guess." Last night, we had over 80 (!) pages with talk tags going back to June, so I tackled those that had been clearly answered, weren't really questions, or had had no response at all and weren't likely to at this point (a few stalled but involve renaming a pages or similar issues so I want to weigh in on those myself). It's just part of the clean-up which we admins do from time to time but we sometimes get behind on or forget about (I've been kept busy rehearsing for a play). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:02, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
- Well, no matter. Someone's bound to find out sooner or later. Garrettk41 00:13, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Paging Andrew Leal
- Yeah, I'll tackle that at a later point. And hello! Yeah, the play's kept me pretty busy and lots of appointments lately. -- 02:26, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Hey, I saw your good quality grabs of the innertube pilot. Where are these from? Warrick 13:15, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Hey, I was finally able to confirm that Feelings starts out normally, and then becomes a Spike Jones type of song. Given that, and Poison to Poison, and maybe even All I Want for Christmas (Is My Two Front Teeth), could we give Spike a page in Musical References? -- Ken (talk) 05:43, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Tweeznax equals Christmas?
Hey Aleal! I was wondering if you give your input on Talk:Episode 108: A Very Brody Tweeznax if you have time to do it and if not its ok since it is up to you. Also, just want to say hi since I'm not sure if this is the first time I wrote to you on your talk page. Thanks and talk to you sometime. - Steven (talk) 21:41, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Hoping you can give me some info
Hi, I'm an admin over at the Doctor Who Wiki an editor who you've blocked User:AKR619 has requested adminship from us, I just wondering what lead him to be blocked from this wiki? (I'll check my talk page at this wiki for any response) Thanks. --Tangerineduel 08:04, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
- Hi thanks for the detailed information. After I left (the above question) I did go looking through the Muppet wiki's block logs looking for his edits (and those that mentioned his user name). But it's great to have the extra information and have everything in perspective. I was already questioning about his request to be an admin, but wanted the whole picture. Thanks once more for all the information. --Tangerineduel 13:34, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Stuff from Japan
Hi! I thought you might like to see a site that sells Japanese versions of US Sesame and Muppet CD's and DVD's. If you search on "sesame street" or "muppet", it brings up a bunch of stuff. Here's the page. -- Ken (talk) 03:56, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm going to get to the letter soon, but I just wanted to comment that I wish Michael Jackson had done so much more with the Muppets than just the other 1978 Christmas special. I swear he might have been on Sesame Street as a kid, but that could just be wishful thinking. It's amazing how many people swear that Free to Be You and Me was a Sesame or Muppet special. I'm glad the wiki helps clear that up. -- Ken (talk) 02:08, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Hey, can we change all the letter pages (A, B, etc.) to say that they're in the English alphabet, and not Roman? There was some back and forth a long time ago, and I really think we should use English, since this is an English language website.
- Yeah, that was a MuzikJunky change, and an inaccurate one too on a number of counts (apparently it's called the Latin alphabet, not Roman, by most, and is the basis but it's not identical in particular, with regards to U). Go ahead and fix wherevere you see it, or else remove the adjective entirely. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 07:00, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
- O K, thanks! -- Ken (talk) 01:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- By the way, did Plaza Sésamo ever do anything with ch, ll, ñ, or rr as letters? -- Ken (talk) 01:54, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I saw a comment you made at Talk: Chrissy about the alphabeats not having semi-consistent performers. I'd like to point out that the lavendar member, who is the more vocal one of the duo, always sounds the same to me. He sounds like he's voiced by Jeff Moss (his voice isn't too different from Big Jeffy's). If you have access to the clips, the lavendar one can be heard clearly in "Rock 'N Roll Readers" and "Cluck Around the Clock"... Hmm, that's less than I'd thought. --Minor muppetz 02:05, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Answered! And I'm glad you're tackling this. I've had my DVD sitting here for ages but haven't got around to doing much with it (I just glanced at Amazon and realized it's now out of print, possibly due to the switch to Genius and Genius not reissuing it yet). So if you want anything screengrabbed, let me know. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:54, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, be sure to look at the Independent Lens website, which has lots of good stuff, including this interview with the filmmakers, which mentions a couple other festivals in passing, by the way. Independent Lens is basically a TV outlet for projects already produced as independent films, so they can be seen by a wider audience, not just those who can make it to festivals. That's one reason so many great animated shorts, even the ones which win Oscars, aren't widely seen because so many never made it beyond the festival circuit (at least the Academy itself, in recent years, has rectified that with DVDs including all short nominees and winners, or at least as many as they can obtain permission to include). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 16:09, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Notability of fan projects
Hey, Andrew! I was wondering if you could take a look at Category talk:Muppet Fandom. I have some questions on how we regulate our coverage of fan-made items (such as fansites). You seem to have a good grasp on these kind of things and I recall there was a discussion a while back (I can't find it now) about not creating articles on all the various Muppet parodies that show up on YouTube. Thanks! -- Brad D. (talk) 22:47, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Up with Oz
Hey, I saw Up, and I saw Frank Oz's dad's name in the credits. (I had seen you mention it on Scott's talk page, so I made sure to look for it.) But I still don't know why he's mentioned. Has anybody explained why yet? Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 16:22, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
- Hi! Short answer is we don't know yet. I expect it will be explained in more detail on the audio commentary. My theory, however, given that it was a specific credit as an inspiration, given the region and the age of Docter and his colleagues, is that it likely stems from Oznowicz's years at Fairyland, as head puppeteer, performer, designer, mentor to trainee puppeteers and accessible to visitors from all accounts, and so on. So he seems to have been both a general inspiration but also a partial model for Carl as far as the scenes at the zoo/animal park and so on (it's in the section headed "to the real life Carl and Elles" etc). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:01, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Do you remember what we said about mentioning co-productions and translations of SS songs on song pages? I don't want to ruin Oscarfan's good time, but he's adding stuff about Plaza Sesamo episodes to song pages, and I thought we had said we weren't doing that, but now I can't find where we discussed it. I think it was brought up because Paul was doing something similar with Sesamstraat. Anyway, I didn't want to barge in there and say, "Hey, what are you doing?" because 1) I'm not an admin, and 2) I can't remember what we had said about it before. So I wanted to double-check our policy. Thanks, and I promise I'll write you tonight! -- Ken (talk) 03:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- I think you'd mostly discussed it with Danny but looking through the contributions history, I can't find anything amiss. What I do see is a couple things mentioning cases where the song was performed by the *cast*, not just a dub, so that's a different matter. The issue as far as I recall was just that we weren't counting international video releases of original US songs dubbed into other languages. But a performance of it by the local Muppets or cast is legit and worth noting (and in many of the other countries, actually fairly uncommon). You can check with Danny but so far I don't see anything that doesn't fit; as I recall, with Paul, the issue was noting stuff that was just dubs and creating a separate page for the Dutch title for Rubber Duckie and that kind of thing. It would be different if it was just noting the Spanish dubbing. And I've had a lot to share with you as well but haven't got around to it (just popped in between watching All Creatures Great and Small with Mom). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- Take a look at recent changes. I'd been meaning to rename the page for sometime (as per old discussions over Cecil the List and character pages with a "the Blank" form which was not actually used in dialogue or text). She's always been Irvine or Oscar's niece Irvine, never "Irvine the Grouch." -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:14, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- Only admins when it involves moving over an establised page or redirect; if you think a page needs to be renamed, raise a question on a talk page or, if it's provably incorrect, mention it to an admin. And you don't have to look at the separate move log, just "Recent changes" (right there in the sidebar, next to "Upload image"). -- Andrew Leal (talk)
- Please don't change what other people write in their talk pages (I typed provably and I meant provably). And right now, the Wiki has all the admins that are needed, but it's by invitation, in essence, based on a long established history of reliable and useful edits, work in dealing with specific problems, good community relations, and general character, among other things. It's more of a responsibility than a privilege, especially when dealing with vandalism or other blocks as well as general organizational issues, and trust me, not always to be envied. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- Provably means something that can be proved, so "provably wrong" means precisely that, where it can be easily demonstrated that a mistake was made (by comparison to title cards, checking an actual episode versus old unreliable memories, typos, etc.) -- 20:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
You've been tweeted
Help with images
Hey there. :) I thought I might ask you a question that I have real big trouble on. Whenever I upload an image,which are mostly Sesame Street images from Sesame Street.org or Youtube,it always keeps saying that the file was corrupt. Do you suppose there's something I'm doing wrong? I put in the appropriate file endings,(mainly jpg for me anyway),although it doesn't seem to want to cooperate with me.
Since Danny and Brad happened to bring up Tennessee O'Neil from The Country Bears the other day, I was wondering: Is his name a takeoff on Tennessee Williams and Eugene O'Neill, or is that just a coincidence? -- Ken (talk) 02:22, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
One of the guys on the record forum I go to just said that Google Books is now offering fully searchable Billboards from 1942 to 2008! Guess what I'll be looking up? -- Ken (talk) 03:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
- Hooray! Have fun! Let me know what you find out about "Rubber Duckie" and the like. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:53, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, and since Billboard also covers music in TV and the movies, I'm hoping for more articles about music in The Muppet Show and the movies in the '70's and '80's. I've also always wondered if any Roosevelt Franklin records charted on the "Soul" charts (that's what they called the R&B charts back then). I'll see what I can find! -- Ken (talk) 04:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry - I won't do that again. You're right - if I have a wish list of Sesame Street video clips I would like to see on YouTube, I'll post it on my page. Moreover, I'll preview the page first to avoid 'multiple mistakes' due to formatting. Again, I apologize.
Hey The user D72jjpilc Has just spammed my talk page with the same thing over and over again for the past few minutes can something be done?
- Thanks for telling me. I just left a warning. It wasn't intentiononal spam, but was bad form (and not logical since you haven't been working on the Sesame Street episode guides anyway). We generally frown on deleting conversations on talk pages, since they're part of the history and record of the Wiki, but in this particular case, since it is a bit spammy, if you want to take it off, go ahead. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:45, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
- Hey I just noticed your message, thanks, I noticed he just left one on Oscarfan's talk page too, Hopefully he's got the message now though. By the way I fixed some of the broken redirects, they where mainly the Muppets christmas collectibles ones but there all working now.
Natonstan 22:52, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Larry Gelbart Papers
I stumbled on this this morning The Larry Gelbart Papers. Is this something new? I am guessing it is personal notes on the stage show? Who do we know in LA that might be able to check it out? lol I'm also wondering if it is about Broadway Show or something else. -- Nate (talk) 15:04, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
- Also found this: Correspondence Looks like it is two pages of notes for the opening of "Muppets in Concert," Two letters regarding Jim Henson's rights to a project involving the Muppets. Both are from Albert DaSilva of DaSilva and DaSilva (2/11/82 and 7/29/82) explaining that Henson would have underlying rights as co-book writer and would receive half $, and Untitled special staring the Muppets. Produced by Max Liebman. Directed by Perry Lafferty. Associate Producer, Bob Tamplin. Marked "38." No date. 87 pages. -- Nate (talk) 15:13, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
It's time to get your book out!
Here's a weird question...
I was watching The Passion of the Christ, and in the end credits, somebody named Philip Farah is credited as "muppeteer"! His IMDb credit is here, plus I paused it to make sure I wasn't seeing things. Do you know if there was any puppetry in that movie? It's weird that they actually used that word instead of "puppeteer" or something like that. -- Ken (talk) 04:27, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Can you identify this muppet for me please?
Hey so I bought this shirt with this pic of a dog muppet on it and I have no idea who he is or from what show but I realized it said TM/copyright The Jim Henson Company on the back. Any ideas? Here's the muppet! Thanks!
Rsjet 17:25, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thank you! Rsjet 18:48, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
What Do You Have?
Hey Andrew -- I saw that you added to Baby Natasha that she appeared in the 1992 edition of What Do You Do? I can't find any info on that edition... was it a new illustrator? Do you have a picture? Etc. :) -- Danny (talk) 03:30, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Tom Cooke illustrations, same text. I wish I could find the old edition. Do you have it? Since I can easily supply a full list of characters for this version, updated to reflect the more current cast (even including our first known illustrated sighting of Flo Bear!) Part of the Sesame Street Book Club reissues which we have for a ton of titles, some just with a cover change, but several featured new art (as with Don't Forget the Oatmeal!). I'll also be scanning an image of the vet from the book, since apart from different hair and nose coloring, he's identical to Dr. Duberman (and he's even examining Barkley). That's pretty rare for non-relative book characters, but both were done by Tom Cooke the same year, so it's reasonable to assume it was intentional. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
The Boxless Franks
Hi! Thanks for mentioning to Nate that Frank Oz movies don't get a box. I never knew that before, so I'll take off the one I made for What About Bob?. I had thought that since he was a major performer, we would document the running time, rating, etc. like the Muppet movies, but I can understand if his movies aren't considered "Muppet" movies like the main stuff. -- Ken (talk) 01:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
- I can't really answer that, but it would help if you could point out specific recent examples. It is something we've tried to remind users of periodically, but it doesn't always take. If it's listed as a minor edit, a lack of edit summary is common (and not usually a problem as long as the edit *is* minor (like fixing a space or someone else's formatting error and so on, not a substantial text change). I know that's what I often do, and looking through my own list, I feel I've been pretty clear and used summaries whenever an explanation or clarification is needed or just helpful to other users (routinely, no summary is used or expected on talk pages). Did you have a specific concern or source of confusion? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:19, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
- Nope, I just noticed that stuff in the Recent Changes. And, because I have seen users make edits without leaving a summary, I've gotten in the habit of making some without one. I don't think of it as much of a concern; likewise, it's something that I noticed. I think that I have used more summaries because I've been more active on the main Wikipedia and is expected from most people there. Matt H. (talk) 23:27, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, we're a little different. Mind you, a lot of it *is* just forgetfulness. Looking around, most of it is for stuff like adding ekas (earliest known episodes) to Sesame Street Guides and other stuff which is both fairly minor and where the user is often making the same change to multiple pages. A reminder is warranted (and last time it was brought up) when it applies to things like page moves (which really require either a clear summary or a discussion beforehand), substantial alterations, anything without a clear source (which otherwise will likely be removed with the summary "unsourced addition"), or pretty much anything where the next editor might have reason to think "Why was this done?" or where it's just helpful to use a summary (sometimes you have a source which isn't fully citable, or you're too tired or whatever, so we use a "first pass" note or a "see talk page for explanation" and so on, or even a "could use some clean-up" if you want help, should anyone else see it). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:31, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
A possible page for Bill Murray
G'day, I'm new here to the Muppet Wikipedia. I was just watching the Darjeeling Limited movie, which has a Wikipedia page here, because it has a tiger created by the Creature Shop, any-hoo I saw that John Barrowman has a page (which you made) for being in the Producers which featured creatures made by the Creature Shop, even though he never directly talked to them (he just sang the first few opening lines to "Springtime for Hitler", and I believe walked off as I didn't see him anywhere else in the opening number.) I was just about to create a page for Bill Murray (who was in the Darjeeling Limited and starred in the Frank Oz films "What about Bob?" and "Little Shop of Horrors".) When I noticed it was deleted and you gave the reason "unless a person has an actual direct Muppet connection, or been referenced by them, they don't get a page", now Bill Murray does have a direct connection (he was in the Darjeeling Limited movie) I was about to create it but I'd thought to get your blessing first. --GreenandEasy 02:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hi and welcome! Yeah, the old page was created some time back and just went on about how Frank Oz worked with him so that must make him relevant. I didn't want to make the page myself for Darjeeling, but you're right we have a few pages from Creature Shop films that are semi-cheats, which we generally allow as long as the person is famous enough (we don't want to create pages for every Producers cast member and so on). It tends to be more interesting if they were in more than one (Jason Schwartzman in Hitchhiker's and Darjeeling), but yeah, Bill Murray can get a page now, so go to it! You might want to take a look at Category talk:Celebrities, by the way, which lays down the ground rules. For things like random specials or appearances at public events, there has to be direct interaction, and of course anyone in a Muppet movie or show or on Sesame (even inserts) counts; but with the Creature Shop stuff, excluding those where the shop only did nebulous CGI effects, the actors are part of the same world as the creature, and we already had pages like Halle Berry by then anyway. So go ahead, but you might find that discussion a useful guideline for the future. It sounds like you have a pretty solid handle on what belongs or could be made interesting on a Muppet Wiki, though! Deletions were usually because some random user started a page saying "So and so is famous and was in Ice Age and was in a movie starring Steve Martin who was once directed by Frank Oz," things like that (or "Tom Such-such III made a joke about Ernie.") So go forth and edit proudly! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:40, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Hey, good answer on the comics. I knew you'd handle that one. Anyway, I just noticed that the Category of Muppet Babies comics doesn't go to a larger category. Would that be Muppet Babies Books or Muppet Babies Merchandise? -- Ken (talk) 04:44, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
- We'll probably deal with that soon, since we're fixing other elements of it, but Category:Comics is it's own entry under books. It's the only one so far where we have a subcat (and a lot of those are just stubs from the early days), so the issue becomes whether to merge, place both category and article in comics (thus mixing subcats and articles), and so on. Probably the really stubby ones (like Muppet Babies issue 11) can be deleted for now (the cover and a one line description are already on the page), so that just leaves two issues. There's room for growth, certainly, but it hasn't happened. So we could just toss the isolated issues in books or the categorie in Merchandise (that, in fact, really would be the easiest and most sensible solution).-- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:57, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Kermit Culture's Coming Quickly!
Yay, it's in paperback, so I can buy more, and I hope that more general bookstores will be interested, and more people will consider getting it on Amazon. I added the ISBN, but can I add your name, or do you want to wait until it comes out, and we can add all the authors? -- Ken (talk) 02:31, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
- I was planning to add a full list, and probably a table of contents, yeah. Coming soon! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:15, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
- They are, but despite the catalogue listing, McFarland still needs to send the list of final changes to editors, and they pass it on to contributors. But that won't take long, and softcover printing takes less time. I'd lean more towards summer (and probably late end) but I was thinking maybe fall, so this is still a good sign. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:36, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi! Good to see you again! I wasn't sure who to ask, but I was wondering about something. Do we have a policy on what gets a title card? I've noticed that some SS direct-to-video titles have title cards in the top corner where the cover would normally go, but it's really not consistent. I know that movies and TV shows have a title card at the top, since they don't have something like a record or video cover for their picture. So should we delete the few title cards that we have on video pages? Or do we want to find them all, and put the video boxes down on the bottom? I wanted to find out before I start adding things to Images Wanted. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 04:23, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
- It's generally not needed on videos, and usually there because we lacked a good cover at the time or otherwise demonstrating something. There's no real policy, though. You can ask Danny or bring it up at current events (or Scott, who's added a lot of title cards), but probably moving the video boxes down to the bottom would work best. A New Baby in My House is an example. It helps provide a kind of visual anchor, especially when as in that case the box images we have are too small; they look okay in the gallery but can't anchor a page, so we use a title card instead (especially if you're going to be standardizing the infoboxes, having a 300px image is a big help). It's basically situational. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:28, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
- It's non-existent now. Back before the XM/Sirius merger, Sirius had a children's channel and one of their blocks was Tellyvision, which as far as I could gather (lacking satellite radio myself) was basically a bunch of Sesame songs/skits apparently hosted by (or otherwise involving) Telly Monster, probably in a sort of kiddie dee jay format. Strader's involvement comes from here (way at the bottom). If you want to unlink it, go ahead, since it is hard to find info on it, but I redlinked it since it is relevant and so at some point if we were to find enough basics (when it began, when it ended, more specifics from actual listeners on the format), it could get its own page. Right now, though, it seems unlikely. At least we have a few specifics, though. Several official bios and event intros of Craig Shemin mention his scripting a six episode Fraggle Rock radio show called Fraggle Rock Storytime and I can't find anything else about it (was it new radio playlets? Red or someone reading a story? what?) -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:51, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Thank you! Nice to see you here too. I appreciate your compliment on my photos - I made that photo set specifically with this wiki in mind, because I wasn't able to find any good photos of the FAO Whatnots online and I wanted to let other people see what they're like. - Brian Kendig 22:12, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
Where would I go to verify an ISBN? Amazon has the same number for the Beta and VHS versions of Bedtime Stories & Songs. All the others fit in the numbering sequence, so I know they're right. I've searched all over the place, but nothing comes up. All I need is the very last number, but I've run all 10 combinations through search engines, and nothing comes up. I thought maybe you'd know something. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 05:13, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Whenever you see this...
- Ho! Access is incredibly wonky and sporadic; been switching between my ancient Dell, which I finally found in the garage, and Dad's machine when he wasn't using it, but I may just forget about it tomorrow (it's been a hassel). Sometime monday, my regular PC should be returned, so yay! I have a ton of stuff I've put off scanning. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:14, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
- Well, turns out a worm had thoroughly corrupted my operating system. They've been backing up clean copies of my files, but they'll have to completely restore/reinstall the OS (Windows XP) and that means any programs that didn't come with it I'll have to reinstall or relocate. They estimate it will be back around 11 am tomorrow. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Uncle Wally and Snuffleupagus
Secret of the Ooze
Hiya! This is a weird question, but you may know: In this edit, you added a review of Secret of the Ooze. The quote contains the phrase "1963's classic maudit" -- it seems like that must be a typo, but I can't figure out what it should be. Unless classic maudit is an actual expression that I haven't run across yet. :) This is going back a couple years, but do you happen to know what that phrase should be? -- Danny (talk) 01:06, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
- No, that's not a typo (unlike "Groos," which I'm glad you caught), but it is a weird phrase, which was italicized in the original, but with film titles in quotes (so we may need to format it differently). The critic was just being pretentious; maudit is a French word which basically means "cursed." -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:37, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks! The editors sent the package off on the 14th, waiting for McFarland to get back with the final list of changes (still some formatting, citations [definitely], and proofing, no doubt). Late spring or summer seems likely at this point, but we won't know for sure until McFarland lists it in their catalogue (as far as I know, especially given pre-orders from libraries and institutions and bulk orders, they generally deliver on time). I'll tell you more as I hear it, but this partially explains why I haven't been around (on Wiki or e-mail) much lately (between final changes and fretting about final changes, and with things sent off, may need to take the PC in for a checkup again). Plus sleep's been off again (better this week) and house is still in disarray, between Christmas decorations, Mom's after-Christmas sale purchases, and most of all, Dad's office stuff. Also had our phone disconnected for a few days and last week Dad was attacked with a stomach infection (exacerbated by refusing to drink enough water, leaving him dehydrated). Plus side is, in combining internet and Dad's room/office phoneline into a bundle package from AT&T, we also now have AT&T Uverse (a Tivo-ish digital cable thingummy with recording capability), so access to Yogi Bear and Quick Draw McGraw (with Spanish options even!) and PBS Sprout, with Sesame Street shows from the late 90s (I caught most of the one involving Linda's birthday) and some vintage skits on PLay with Me Sesame, and since this Monday (I'm not sure if it's temporary or not), more channels including Turner Classic Movies and a Western channel which runs Maverick (commercial free and unedited) on weekdays. So yay! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Hey, have you ever run across the Sesame Street Newsflash where Kermit meets The Pied Piper dubbed in Spanish? I have a suspicion that that's what "Gustavo y el flautista" is! Paul has the record, and I asked him too, but I'm asking you since you're the Dubbing Manager! Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 07:02, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
- Hi! Logically, that's the only sketch it could be (since Kermit never interacted with any other pipers/fifers/flautistas), but it would be in Castilian Spanish, from Spain (probably from the mostly hard to find pre-Barrio Sesamo dub, in Castilian Spanish). So finding the Plaza version wouldn't help. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:17, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Well, there was some confusion as to whether it was "Gustavo el flautista" or "Gustavo y el flautista", so I was hoping to find the sketch (mostly because I wanted to see how a beatnik jazz flute player would sound in Spanish), but since Paul speaks Spanish (probably better than I do!), and can understand the record, he confirmed it for me. Now I have to confirm "Epi en el zoo", which I think is the sketch from Episode 0020 where Ernie gets a scratch on his finger at the zoo, but I can't find that one at all anywhere. Maybe Guillermo has it. Anyway, gracias! -- Ken (talk) 01:14, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Hi Andrew is it possible to make a Samson through the years page? As this character also changed a lot.. It's noted on the Samson page, but many Muppets have a special page for this.(Pino 00:03, 9 January 2009 (UTC))
"It's a Small World After All..."
Hi! I think I showed you this a while ago, but look at the new bottom half! By the way, the Vila Sesamo LP has finally been released on CD in Brazil! It's kind of an expensive import, but I might try to track it down! I just wish I could find something in Spanish instead of Portuguese! -- Ken (talk) 07:01, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
I've had it with CLamanatha. I've been kind of low-level concerned for a while, and today I actually looked into his/her contributions and found all kinds of mess. -- Danny (talk) 03:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
- I'd actually asked Scott some time ago if he could check the IP, since a lot of it was extremely Dean-esque. I'm not sure if it was Dean, or just someone with the same mentality, but yeah, whenever we keep having to do mass reverts (or raise talk page questions that shouldn't need to be raised), it's not worth it. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:15, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think you're right. That alone isn't a problem, mind, as long as they otherwise make sense and communicate with the rest of the Wiki (looking through the history, I missed quite a few cases where CLamanatha was edit warring or ignored talk page consensus and so on, in some cases mere minutes after an admin had weighed in). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
- I think because the bulk was in the last three months (when we've had holidays or vacations or surgeries), getting lost in the shuffle with other users and a lot of discussions, and the fact that CLamanatha hadn't called anybody a "[copulating] [racial epithet]." -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
- You didn't? I thought that was part of what happened when somebody was blocked. I just got one of those e-mails too, and I forwarded it to Andrew, because I didn't know what else to do with it. I saw where he was harassing the admins, but I thought it was weird that he's now bugging people like me who weren't even talking to him. Oh well. -- Ken (talk) 04:42, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Hey, Andrew! I just noticed something. On some video pages (like The Muppet Movie) we have the UK editions at the bottom. But on other video pages (like Muppet Treasure Island) we have them with the foreign dubs. My feeling is that it should be like the records. The UK/Israeli/Argentinian Muppet Show LP's go on the US page, because it's the US recording. But the French recording gets its own page. Would that make sense to group videos like that, with foreign releases of the English-language film with our release, and put the dubs all together on their page? -- Ken (talk) 04:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- It's mainly because we don't have as much info on those, or depends on who made the page. [[Muppet Treasure Island (international video)]] is specifically that, all known international releases, and the only such page we have right now anyway. International Muppet Singles is really a better comparison than the Muppet Movie page, particularly since all of the international DVDs (not always so for the US releases) include the English version and usually the dub for that particular country (look closely and you'll see some just have subtitles; several countries have in fact the exact same content, just with different covers and with the order of the non-English language or subtitle tracks varying), plus often at least one other option. So that's all there is to it, really. The reason, say The Muppets Take Manhattan (video) has an "International Release" section for the UK ones is because nobody's created a separate international page yet, and in many cases, we don't have a need for one or enough to support it right now (Henrik did with Treasure Island). And the reason the French recording gets its own page is because we have info on voices, different tracks often compared to the US release or sometimes even the UK one, translated song titles, covers, etc. while for Australia, say, we have a cover (sometimes) and a label but it's otherwise the same content with no change. Basically, as you can see, the videography pages are structured differently anyway, since it's all about formats and release specifics, while the bulk of the records are their own productions (new content or a specific repackaging of old content). For example, note that the UK DVD is actually identical in every way to the French version *except* cover (and possibly menu language options, which aren't always applicable; I don't think they are at all on my Mexican/Latin American DVD, but some of the more recent stuff, like Oz, is more closely tailored). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, I think I didn't ask my question right. I'm basically asking about the boxes on the pages like The Muppet Movie (video) and Muppet Treasure Island (video). TMM has the UK videos after the US ones. MTS doesn't have UK videos on it, but they're on the page for [[Muppet Treasure Island (international video)]]. Which way is right? I'm asking because I may have some more information to add. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 05:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Both pages are fine as is in terms of what they cover. The UK videos are on The Muppet Movie page just because we don't have any "Muppet Movie (international video)" page yet. If you're asking to double count the UK videos on both the international video and US pages, that's your call, really. But with the DVDs, the UK releases have more in common with and sometimes are even the same, minus packaging language, as other European ones, so I'd definitely be opposed to yanking them from the international pages, which are tracking release specifics for each country, not dubbing necessarily (which is why the Treasure Island page links to the actual dub pages, or redlinks when we have the info but the page hasn't been created yet). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's another 2006 page. It should definitely be merged with The Muppet Christmas Carol (video). Basically, UK videos go on the same page as the rest unless/until there's enough info for an international page. We've been accumulating bits and pieces on others, plus the international Amazons, so we could probably take a stab at the most recent ones at least at some point (I think we have cover images for the French, German, and Spanish Carols, and Henrik probably has info on some of the other subtitled versions and so on). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 07:30, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Okay, I'm going to put it on the US page, since the text looks like the text for the US release. I've been messing around with Worldcat, and I've been thinking about expanding stuff like out-of-print VHS releases and stuff like that (if I ever finish the records!). -- Ken (talk) 07:36, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- I started the Muppet Treasure Island videography, and I had plans on adding the other muppet realease as well later. I have a bunch of video covers from various countries on my HD. However I've always been unsure about the format it have, and have been thinking on trying something different with Muppets from space videography, I've just never gotten around to it. Henrik (talk) 12:07, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Hans My Hedgehog
Hi Andrew! As you can see from Recent changes, I had a busy day today. :) I posted a bunch of talk page messages -- I know you'll check them all out, but I want to especially point out Talk:Episode 101: Hans My Hedgehog, which is specifically for you. -- Danny (talk) 00:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
You should protect all talk pages and user pages for blocked users with curses. They will curse more. Webkinz Mania 01:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
You said on Talk:Chris Renaud: "I know you're in one of your random page rampages." I know what you mean, but I have to say that I'm bothered by the implication that I regularly do something that's destructive to the wiki.
I know that you have followed my edits pretty closely tonight, so it should be obvious that what I'm doing is going through the Designers category in order, adding to each page as I go -- links, information, pictures. As I'm going through, when I find a page that seems like it doesn't amount to much, I'm flagging it specifically for you, because I know that you'll have a good sense of whether a page is worthwhile or not. I've been working on this Designers project for a few days, and I've found some (like Laura Brock and Nick Rayburn) where you've agreed, and some (like Andrea Detwiler) where you've said that there's enough to justify a page. In each instance, when you've said that a page is worth keeping, I've been very happy to accept your answer.
So it really bothers me when you said on Talk:Ian Rolph that the project that I've been working on for the past few days has "made me wonder again if there's some attempt to trim down the Wiki". The implication is that I have some secret and possibly sinister intention.
I think that the work that I've done on the wiki tonight and pretty much every day for the last three years would indicate that my intention, as always, is to make the wiki more complete, more accurate and more interesting.
A "rampage" is violent, destructive and reckless. When I hit random page, it's not a "rampage". It's a deep and active interest in constantly improving the wiki that I love and have spent three years of my life helping to build. -- Danny (talk) 08:03, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- Also... "Jerk!" -- Seriously? Is that how we talk to each other? -- Danny (talk) 08:05, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- I was joking (and responding to the "Not to question everything...." which seemed to invite it; it's a web comic reference, but the tone doesn't come across well.) I really didn't mean to insult you. On the whole, I agree with you. "Rampage" was a poor choice of words, but there are times where it does seem like "Let's delete things!" I don't mean secret or sinister, and please don't misunderstand me, but many reorganization efforts have felt like trimming attempts (in the very basic "Is there same space limitation we're not aware of" way). I fully agree when there's no other credit. And designers is awesome now. I don't want to upset you, or upset myself, so if you'd rather I just let you decide yourself, go ahead, and I'm sorry I'm letting it feel that way to me. I'll drop the whole thing. I don't want to get into something right now. Please forgive me. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 08:13, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- I think what bothered me about those comments tonight is that you said them in the middle of what I was perceiving as some really fun, healthy, collaborative work that we were doing together. On my side, I felt like you and I were kind of going through a box of files together, and I was picking some out that I wasn't sure about. Is this one okay? What about this one? I didn't see the questions as threats. I'm asking because I know that you'll respond, and I trust your judgement.
- I don't want to decide by myself; that's the whole point of us working together. I'm asking the question, you're telling me what you think, and there have been a number of times just in the last couple days where I've said, okay, that sounds good, just checking. I haven't argued with you or even disagreed with anything you've said.
- I posted a question on Nick Rayburn and another on Chris Renaud one minute apart. On Nick Rayburn, you agreed with me and said that the page should be nuked. On Chris Renaud, you disagreed, and said that I was on a rampage. That's what bothers me. I don't understand how we could be working together happily and then all of a sudden I'm on a "rampage" sixty seconds later. -- Danny (talk) 08:24, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- I'm really really sorry! Poor choice of words (I should have said spree or period or just not said anything; I just notice it whenever it crops up en masse). Please, let's drop it. I'm sorry I typed (and Rayburn came after Renaud, so it shows I really didn't mean it in an angry sense). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 08:27, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, it's cool. I'm sorry for getting upset over it, and I'll drop it. I really like working with you a lot, so it just hit me in a weird way tonight.
- Just to respond to your question above -- there's no space limitations. There's nothing that you're not aware of. I'm really excited about hitting 20,000 pages, just like you are. I just don't want to hit that milestone based on a bunch of junky pages like Celia Skunk or Laura Brock. When we hit 20,000 pages -- and it should be pretty soon -- we want those to be 20,000 amazing pages. You and I are 1000% on the same side. -- Danny (talk) 08:39, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Hey, IMDb says that Daws Butler was in Mary Poppins, but he was uncredited. Is that true? If it is, I'd like to put Mary Poppins on the Projects with Muppet Cast Connections page with 3 people (him and Dick Van Dyke and Julie Andrews). Or would that be stretching it too much, even if it is true, since he didn't work with the Muppets the same way they did? -- Ken (talk) 07:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Since you've weighed in on this kinds of issues before, if you get a chance, I'd appreciate it if you could take a look at our titling of "The Today Show" vs "Today". Not much discussion has happened, and I don't want to make any changes without some discussion first. Thanks. -- Brad D. (talk) 20:49, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for your answers tonight. I was just wondering (and I might put this on his page) if we know who else did Oscar's legs besides Herve. (Do they still even do that?) Anyway, it's amazing how fast you're able to provide answers to music stuff, too! -- Ken (talk) 07:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
- Nope. Nobody else has ever been mentioned in any way. They dropped the device decades ago (and the introduction of Bruno pretty much eliminated any need for it, unless for a specific visual gag). Last known appearance was briefly for the main titles in the 1990s, and at the time, I was very surprised to see it. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Hey, I keep forgetting to ask you something. It looks like the Bee Gees song "You Should Be Dancing" is on one of the SS Live CD's. Can we expand the Robin Gibb page into a Bee Gees page, and mention that, as well as the other Bee Gees references, like the SS Fever album cover? -- Ken (talk) 05:22, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Well, Gibb had a direct involvement. So I'd say make a Bee Gees page and categorize it under Category:Musical References, and cover any of that there. I wouldn't know a Bee from a Gee, so I'm glad you caught it. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:25, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I didn't know if it would be repetitious, like when we worked out the Carpenters/Karen Carpenter thing. Musically speaking, Robin, Maurice and Barry didn't have any solo hits like Andy did, so I didn't know if it would be okay to make two pages. I'll try something, and we can always move it back if it doesn't work. Thanks! (And a Bee is a major third up from a Gee!) -- Ken (talk) 06:16, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Anybody got any pictures of Vivian, Victor, and Walter the Vampire?
I made an entry on the The cast of All My letters. It was a parody of All My Children. Do you remember this sketch? -- User:BuddyBoy600
I'm Sorry, I just lose my temper. Everything is okay. But I remember seing it as a nameless character. And was not Velma Blank. I remember Velma Blank from The Sesame Street Sketch: Squeal of Fortune. And Velma Blank was Pat Playjacks' Sidekick. BTW, She was performed by David Rudman, Even though she was a silent character.-- User:BuddyBoy600
I saw "The Alphabet Game"
That was a nameless lady. And that wasn't Velma Blank. It was, a nameless lavender anything muppet lady. Velma Blank is a Green anything muppet lady. --User:BuddyBoy600
I put the unknown performer on Nelson and Jeanette
I know it may or may not be Steve Whitmire, or Karen Prell. But some user may find out by the voices and identfied. -- User:BuddyBoy600 20:00, November 24, 2008
- Hi, Paul! I'm not really sure what you're asking. Does the album have a page already or did you want to create one? Does it just resemble the album or is it a reissue? If you're not sure and just speculating right now based on the ebay page, then it might be better to just wait. Ken's been doing a lot of work on the Australian CDs, so he's more likely to know or uncover more about this. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
- See our earlier Plaza discussions. The CTW materials discussing both shows use no accent marks, and in many countries, the title cards didn't either until the late 1990s if then. So we left them off just because right now evidence suggests they weren't used (even if, strictly speaking, they probably should have). For that matter, a comma between "Bonjour" and "Sesame," however accented, would have made better sense, but they didn't do that either. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:38, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Los Discos de Fraggle
Hi! Is there a reason that Die Fraggles Hörspiele is in International FR merchandise, and not International FR albums? Are we treating those differently from the other non-US FR LP's? I was wondering because on the category page, it has its own entry on the bottom of the page. I figured you'd know, since you guys set all that up way before I got here. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 06:58, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
- I figure that's because they weren't song albums, but I neither created nor categorized that one. Looking at it, Wendy created it in October 2007, so it was probably just an oversight on her part. Good catch, I'll fix it (though at some point, a category or probably a list for the various relevant "Hörspiele" would be useful. In the meantime, gaze at the majesty of Polish Muppets! Found at the Heritage auction site (they specialize in comics and animation collectibles, old coins and giveaways, and stuff of that ilk). This is an actual 1979 poster, though it's so striking and departs from copying the US art in a way that makes it feel more modern. I love it, from the font to the color scheme to the obvious fact that this unknown Polish artist adored Animal and didn't care much about anyone else (Fozzie, Piggy, Kermit, and Scooter are afterthoughts, and Gonzo's omitted entirely). You'd asked me a few days ago when the time was tooth hurty, as they say, but when I get the chance, I'll probably create a gallery page for the international posters and such, to live in Category:International Muppet Movie (which I haven't created yet, but I have enough info for three solid dub pages, and then the gallery, since for most of those, either it was subtitled, untranslated, or as with Poland, we just don't know who was involved). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 07:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
- Cool, thanks! Yeah, I saw that picture go by on Recent Changes, and I clicked on it out of curiosity, because just from the name you gave it (Muppet Movie Polish), I thought maybe they had made some Muppet Movie Shoe Polish! (That's almost as bad as "Die, Fraggles!") -- Ken (talk) 07:16, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi! Looking through some old conversations we've had, I ran across the Thai Muppet Movie poster. Do you think we should put those at the bottom of the film's page, like we do for foreign editions of records, or would you rather make some kind of page of all foreign posters together, like put all Movie, then Caper, etc.? I know we don't have much right now, but I was just thinking ahead. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 05:48, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
- Churchy! This is neat (I spotted Churchy right off, in fact, and had to look closely to spot the Pogo silhouette). I had two Gilchrist Muppet books but gave them away years ago. One which I wish I'd kept chronicled Miss Piggy's presidential bid (and one strip featured a cameo by Bert at a rally). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
CS people again
Heya. I keep forgetting where it was that we laid out the guidelines for which actors in Creature Shop movies we create pages for, and which ones we don't. I'd like to link to it from Muppet Wiki:Policies and Guidelines. Do you remember where it is? —Scott (talk) 03:03, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
- Category talk:Celebrities. The basic summary (and this applies to other stuff too) is anyone who worked on-camera with Muppets or in a film with Creatures (animatronic or digital) or in a relevant off-camera capacity (voice of a Creature/Muppet, writer, etc.) counts. Anyone who was in a film with random CG Creature Shop effects (cloth, water, etc.), voiced a non-Creature character, or appeared in a larger special with Muppets but with no actual interaction *and* no other relevance, doesn't count. I think that's simpler than going through that huge page. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:55, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
hi, this might be pretty stupid of me, but are the virmups actually filmed by the official puppeteers?( steve whitmire, dave goelz) etc. thanks --Muppetstudios 19:24, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, they're fully authorized and professionally done with the same puppeteers and written by people like Jim Lewis and Bill Barretta. The mass recast era has more or less ended, according to Whitmire. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi, on the article The Bird is the Word, the Famous track Surfin' Bird has no article. I know this wiki doesn't write articles about thinks that don't have anything to do with the muppets but Big Bird Sings the track so it does. I can write up an article if you want or can leave it. --Muppetstudios 18:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
- Hi! You're right; in this case, it's a redlink because it is relevant but nobody's created the page yet. So if you have info, go ahead and start the article! If you need help with formatting and grammar and so on, someone else can help you out. So go to it! I'm glad you spotted it. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:43, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
- Never mind..... you did it. --Muppetstudios 19:10, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
- That I did! That's the nice thing about a Wiki, and why you should never hesitate about starting an article as long as it's relevant and you know something about it (since someone can always fix the rest if the basic facts are there). Congratulations! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:18, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi, could you tell me how to find out what pages( if any) have a link(s) to a article. ( This has nothing to do with Surfin' Bird, but i didn't want to waste space). --Muppetstudios 19:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
- Hi! That's a good question. Look to your right on any page, and it's in that navigation box below the logo. It's not easily apparent if you're not used to it, but it's the third link in the left column, under "random page." Click on it and it will show what links to whichever page you're currently reading or editing. It works with redlinks too. Hope this helps. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:03, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Hey, Andrew, just out of curiosity, and because I don't know who to ask, do you know anything about how exactly the Muppeteers move between the Workshop, and Disney, and their own stuff? I'm wondering, for example, are Steve and Eric Jim Henson Company employees, Disney employees, Workshop employees, or does it depend on what they're doing? To me it seems complicated, since Disney owns the Muppet characters, so it seems like they could hire other people to work them, but so far they've used the "real" performers. Was that part of the deal when they sold them to Disney, that they had to use the official performers? And does something similar exist for the Workshop characters? I'm just wondering how they schedule everything now that we're actually getting new Muppet stuff and new Sesame stuff at the same time. -- Ken (talk) 04:57, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Muppets and Money
I've seen you mention that you're working on a "Muppets and Money" chapter a few times lately. Is this a Wiki article you're planning, or a school assignment, or something else? --Minor muppetz 21:37, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
- No, it's part of an upcoming book called Kermit Culture, an anthology of academic essays about different aspects of the Muppets (primarily The Muppet Show/movie group of characters). I'm on the final revision, so once I get it in, I'll clear it with the editors and make a Wiki page for it. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:45, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
- It's from McFarland, and books of this kind don't need authorization (look up Reading the Rabbit, for example, about the Warner cartoons), they just have to avoid excessive transcription and other areas that could infringe on a copyright, and it probably will have few illustrations if any. As for availability, depends on whether it comes out in hardback or paperback; it won't be cheap either way (their paperbacks tend to run 30 to forty dollars), but hardbacks tend to run closer to one hundred dollars (their market is primarily academic institutions, libraries, and film scholars who can afford to splurge). At the very least, however, you're practically guaranteed to obtain a copy from one or more libraries in your area (and in the worst case scenario, there's interlibrary loan). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:56, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
- I wasn't concerned about the price, just whether I'd be able to find a copy. But I guess that'll depend on how interested stores will be in the book. There have been quite a few Muppet books that I haven't found in stores at the times they came out, not even bookstores. --Minor muppetz 22:01, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
We're gonna turn it on, mate!
Hey, Andrew, I found evidence that they released the Electric Company album in Australia. Do you know if they ever showed TEC in Australia, maybe as a package deal with Sesame or something? -- Ken (talk) 05:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
- I have absolutely no idea, but a package deal seems fairly unlikely just because of the way CTW did things. The album isn't necessarily an indicator the show aired there, though it's not impossible; most of the CTW documents I looked it implied that was one show that for the most part they weren't really bothering with promoting or selling it abroad (though it still might have aired, there's really no way of checking right now). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:12, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
- Okay. I was just curious because not every SS album was released in Australia, so I was curious why they chose the ones they did. (They even released the Pete Seeger one there, too!) I'm guessing they might have chosen that one because of Rita Moreno and Bill Cosby being on it, or it was just part of the catalog they had to choose from. Although I find it curious that even though some albums came out twice, as far as I can tell, they never got Grover Sings the Blues. Oh well. -- Ken (talk) 06:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi! We sure do look for old conversations a lot, I've noticed. Usually it's when we're trying to remember why we settled on some decision that we'd like to go back and cite for our own purposes, or when somerhing comes up in a group discussion. I've started a sandbox page here Muppet Wiki:Policies and Guidelines to be all sloppy and just kinda toss stuff in there for now. I think about doing this a lot whenever something like this comes up, but now that I'm putting it together, I can't think of some of the best examples. Can you help out? —Scott (talk) 23:40, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
- It looks like a pretty good start to me, but there are definitely others. I'll certainly add them as I remember or come across them, though I'm too tired right now to do so (I can't find the original source for the "no YouTube links of commercially available material," though that's kind of covered under YouTube, but it's a definite, unanimous policy; maybe a section on our policy as far as "fair use" and what's safe to gleefully plunder and what's best avoided). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:44, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi! Does Chile get the same Plaza Sesamo Mexico does? I love the new CD's Paul is adding, but I'm confused why Chile is selling stuff with the Mexican show's name, but the Plaza Sesamo page doesn't mention Chile. Do we know what countries air PS? I'd like to put that on the show's page. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 00:14, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
- I think it's because Paul keeps saying "Mexican co-production" in the articles. It's not exactly untrue but more than a bit misleading in that context. Plaza Sesamo began as the blanket Latin-American co-production (and, in fact, I recently found out it first premiered in Puerto Rico). So all Spanish-speaking Latin American countries get the same merchandise and program. The original cast was more mixed, as noted on the talk page, but as time has passed, it's become more specifically Mexican as far as the street and Muppet portions go. Filmed and animated inserts come from various countries. Originally, in fact, press materials just called it the "Latin American" version, but in recent years, Sesame Workshop now classes it as the Mexican co-production, which again is largely correct but not the whole picture. Take a look at the revamped Workshop article, which discusses the current model, the filmed inserts, and has a huge list of countries that broadcast the show at the bottom. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:21, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
- Well, the reason I'm asking is that it seems weird for Paul to come across 6 Spanish CD's from Chile, and we still don't have anything Mexican except that one LP from a long time ago. I'm going to ask him if it says Chile on the packaging, and I would think that Mexico would have gotten the same or similar titles. By the way, totally off the wall, CBS made a Japanese pressing of The Sesame Street Book & Record! The book looks the same, but there's also some Japanese text on the inside front cover! It's amazing what we keep running across! -- Ken (talk) 00:30, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
- Well, evidently it was a Pampers promotion, not a normal retail situation, though again that's not made as clear as it could be on the page. And the fact that Chile is further from the US, and thus there's considerably less competition from the US English-language market (when it comes to music, Mexico as with other countries tends to have no real issue with songs in another language as long as it's sung by someone they like; it's the equivalent of the way Placido Domingo and the like are appreciated here, only applied to a much larger spectrum of performances, without the high art/low art division). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:38, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
- Well, the reason I'm asking is that it seems weird for Paul to come across 6 Spanish CD's from Chile, and we still don't have anything Mexican except that one LP from a long time ago. I'm going to ask him if it says Chile on the packaging, and I would think that Mexico would have gotten the same or similar titles. By the way, totally off the wall, CBS made a Japanese pressing of The Sesame Street Book & Record! The book looks the same, but there's also some Japanese text on the inside front cover! It's amazing what we keep running across! -- Ken (talk) 00:30, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
- It's from Baby Piggy Goes to Nursery School and redlinked from there accordingly. I just wasn't able to find a way to make a page for him interesting beyond the plot summary in the book article at that time so I just parked the image on the disambig page. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:02, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Just thought I'd share what I've been working on. Wendy found those German 45's I was telling you about, and one thing led to another, and before you know it, we wound up with this! -- Ken (talk) 04:46, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for sharing! It's been a difficult evening. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:14, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
- Hey, I'm sorry to hear that. I'll write you in a minute.
- She's a superhero, period. The picture at the top of the Thelma Thumb page is of her in superhero guise. Her civilian identity is Marcia Middlewell, in glasses and clothes. I will be working more on Thelma, mind, from CTW notes combined with some Dutch YouTube clips (since the notes and the current summaries are sufficient to figure out what's happening), but there's no reason the main image couldn't be used if you want it on that page. And the "at times" bit is thus inaccurate. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:25, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Der Duckie auf Rubber
Hi! Wendy found a German 45 of the original US recording of Rubber Duckie! Of course I'm excited, because it also gives a German catalog number for the first US Columbia album, and I didn't even know there was one! But now I'm confused. The dubbed version is on the first German LP, which came out on Poly, a German label, in 1973. Did they show Sesame Street in Germany between 1970 and 1973, or could they have just sold the single and album as some kind of educational/novelty songs, since they wouldn't have seen the show? I wanted to share this with you, since I know we both like international recordings (although this one isn't dubbed!). -- Ken (talk) 06:46, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, English language versions of the songs and so on sometimes preceded airings of the actual show. So that's all it is. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
- Fixed. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:26, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Rubber Duckie Dubbing Question
- No idea on the talk question. I think it's unlikely that the CD includes different dubs with different names. There has been more than one song about Rubber Duckie, and it's mildly possible it's a new one recorded for album purposes, though that's less likely than this being another related song that hasn't been placed yet (I know for sure it's not "Put Down the Duckie," though). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:38, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Moose and Squirrel
Heya! In Episode 4080, the Fairy Godperson gets a call on his wand cell phone about a moose in Minnesota who wants to fly like a squirrel. Is this a Rocky and Bullwinkle reference? —Scott (talk) 04:42, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
- Yes! Rocky and Bullwinkle live in Minnesota, and Rocky's a flying squirrel. No such scenario happened in the actual show, of course, but this will be a nice addition to Jay Ward. Yay and thanks! This brightens my evening. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
- Well, Rocky and Bullwinkle live in Frostbite Falls, Minnesota... I'd say that's a yes. :) -- Danny (talk) 04:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Attack of the Cloned Redirects
Hi! I'm not sure if this would help your redirect situation that you were talking about a while back, but there are a lot of redirects in the record section that I think could be erased. Some are misspellings, some are just plain inaccurate, and some have (CD) or (LP) on the end, from way back at the beginning, and we don't put formats in titles, except for something like the 2 different versions of "C is for Cookie". So if you want, I can start requesting titles for deletion. Would that help cut down on the huge number to go through? Let me know. -- Ken (talk) 22:40, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi! When you get a minute, can you give your thoughts on Current Events about how to link a name when the name has an apostrophe in it? Thanks! Meanwhile, I give you Poly. -- Ken (talk) 01:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
- Ask and ye shall receive. Done and done. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:14, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks! Yeah, it felt like a return to the Wiki's roots (pun intended). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:02, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Angsthaas and Stuntkip
He the funny thing happened.. ANders de Wit I believe is Jochem right? He is the new voice in Sesamstraat for Angsthaas! Maybe you can contact him and ask him for better pictures? I mean our Jog is working there now! How great is that (Pino 00:06, 6 September 2008 (UTC))
- Last I was aware of, User:Jogchem edited under his own name, unless he forgot and suddenly decided to use a pseudonym (or because of the professional aspect). Feel free to ask on his page. Either way, though, it's definitely a very neat happenstance indeed, to say the least. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:13, 6 September 2008 (UTC) -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:13, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
If you do a Google search for <international voice actors>, our category comes up as the #1 result. :) So it's not surprising if we get a visit like this every once in a while.... -- Danny (talk) 00:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
- Aha! In general, we haven't had as much of that since we moved to registration, but yeah, it still crops up now and again (this is just the first one to happen in that category). I've deleted the page. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:01, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Heya. I noticed you've been uploading pictures of Alaina Reed from other productions. Do you want a screenshot from her appearance on Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman? —Scott (talk) 06:14, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
- If you have it, yes, please! I'm trying to fill in the blanks on Sesame Street Cast in Other Roles. Right now, my favorite may well be Will Lee in Casbah, wearing bedouin garb but still with his glasses on. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:15, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi! I'll probably mention this on Current Events in a few days, because of all the other stuff that's there right now. But I just wanted to ask you if we have a policy page somewhere about how, where and when to bold. I've noticed that it's all over the place, but I kept forgetting to bring it up. A page like David Rudman has other pages in bold, but the album titles on Sing or listings on Elmo Books aren't. Is it only for movies? Anyway, I just wanted to mention it so I don't forget. -- Ken (talk) 22:18, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
- The Rudman thing is left over from the early days of the Wiki, when the credit lists were mostly taken from the old Punch and Jewelry sites. There's no rule, so feel free to mention it to Danny or on current events (after the current issue is settled). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:41, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
A international voice actor
- Danny missed that one. Ask him or raise it on the talk page if you like. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:41, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
- No issues on that, that was replaced. It's the same as this, only lower res and a PNG. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:20, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Since I'll be home tomorrow...
- Pretty much what it sounds like. It's really closure to motion capture in this case, but uses a variant of the same technology Henson pioneered for animatronics. For each character, there's a motion capture performer, in a black suit with dots on, who pantomimes the actions which is then manipulated. With this (and Frances), they also have a puppeteer who controls the face with a waldo (just as they've used for Doozers or Ghost of Christmas Present), only instead of controlling an animatronic puppet head, it changes the CG character's expression. In most mo-cap productions (like Polar Express or Gollum in the lOTR movies), there's a certain amount of keyframe animation also involved (and sometimes additional rendering and modeling). I'm not entirely clear how much of that is involved here or is mostly fully automated (some of the promotional stills suggest it's mainly a matter of just placing the digital character image on the digital sets, something they first worked with on The Wubbulous World of Dr. Seuss). It's also why, as in puppetry but not animation, each character has to be puppeteered and performed individually (the face/voice and body work as a team, it seems, but whether all the performers work together or whether they take each character team's performance individually and then just edit it all together once it's been "programmed," I'm not sure; quite likely, since unlike the animatronic stuff, there's no *physical* character that has to be in the same space as another to interact). That's the best I can do, though once it's aired, we may or may not see articles or "behind the scenes" stuff explaining this more fully. There's *some* helpful info on Henson Digital Performance System, but not quite enough (I'll have to put that on my to do list). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:21, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks! That's interesting! When I read that, I didn't know if they meant they were just going to take digital pictures of an actual puppet, and just animate it from there like Pixar, or what they were talking about. I'm not the expert that you are, and everything that's not 2D "traditional" (pre-1966 Disney) looks the same to me, whether it's this or Pixar or Veggie Tales or the new Ernie and Bert cartoons.
- I was also happy to learn that KCET (the LA PBS station) is also involved! We have tons of local shows about California history and stuff, but I think this is the first show that's going national! I was just messing around the Sid website, and it's cool that Henson is doing an educational show on PBS! I wonder if that might affect what Sesame Street's going to do? We're getting the show at 9 and 2, so I'm also wondering if they'll show this in schools. It seems to skew a little older than Sesame Street, with plants and simple science and stuff. I'm sure my nephews know about it, since even I've seen a couple of commercials for it. So I hope they do well! -- Ken (talk) 21:35, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, it actually reminds me of a kiddified 3-2-1 Contact or something like that, but I'm glad they're doing it. PBS these days in general, not just Sesame, skews much younger, without the diversity in types of shows or curricular focus they had in the past, even when I was a kid: no nature shows, no art lessons, no soft-voiced old painter guy illustrating books, no quirky 70s TVOntario shows, only one math show right now it seems, and aside from Sesame, Reading Rainbow reruns (and in some markets but not here, Mr. Rogers), and two other puppet shows, next to nothing which isn't a recent cartoon. I don't mind a single show (Sesame) shifting their focus, but I actually thought it was more effective when PBS had a mix of shows for a variety of ages (and even if some of it went over younger viewers' head, it tended to make things easier to comprehend when they reached that stage thanks to triggered memories). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, Reading Rainbow and 3-2-1 Contact are after my time, but I figured you had seen them. We had Villa Alegre and Big Blue Marble, which I wish would show up somewhere. I'll have to mess around with TV Guides around 1977, but that was basically the lineup: SS, Mr. Rogers, Electric Company, Zoom, Vegetable Soup, BBM, VA, and some of those they showed more than once a day. I have no idea what was on PBS at night back then. Of course, that was when all they showed at night was operas and British dramas. Now they show things like Rolling Stones concerts. Oh well.
The Mystery of the Blue Elephant
Thanks for your research on the Blue Elephant movie! I was wondering why something in the Upcoming box still had a redlink, and not even an "In development" rough article. I'm glad you were able to figure out what it actually is. That's the kind of stuff you're great at! -- Ken (talk) 23:45, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks! I was wondering about it from the start (the Upcoming box works best for notable releases), and as of now, the Henson connection is minimal (looks like I'll have to actually rent it to see if the credits clarify things, but it's still basically the equivalent of the folks who dubbed Godzilla and the like). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
- I don't really have an opinion on that. I think Paul's the one who started it. It is unusual. I guess disambiguation by year would work (looking at the covers, both use the same capitalization actually), unless they were by different labels. Like I said, I really don't have a solid answer. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 08:46, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, these four are the same label. So I think I'm going to put the year in the page's title. I've also run across something similar in the Dutch stuff, where several albums are called something like "It's Sesamstraat's birthday!" with different contents, but those might be on different labels or have other differences. Right now, I'm still putting together a numerical listing of the first set of LP's. I'll be getting to CD reissues later on. -- Ken (talk) 09:15, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
What's Up Doc?
Hi Andrew! I am not sure if you noticed this refrence to the Muppets in Mel Blanc's autobiography,"That's Not All Folks!". I wanted to clarify if it would be acceptable mention this on the Mel Blanc page? -- Smith 23:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
- Hi! I have the book myself. In general, I'd say no to this kind of mention in the article, though feel free to park it on the talkpage. It's a fleeting reference to their ranking in some other poll (inaccurately classed as cartoon characters). It's not even like the Caroll Spinney quote about how proud he felt to see Big Bird on the back of the Golden Books: "I've gotten up there with Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse!" It basically tells us nothing about Blanc in relation to the Muppets, just that he remembered a poll that mentioned them. There's other quotes like that in other people's memoirs or general media books. Now, any quotes from a person already on the Wiki that express an opinion or a relationship (i.e. "I admired Henson's work," "Kermit the frog always disturbed me," etc.) are worth adding. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:42, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
- That's no problem at all. Are you excited for The Looney Tunes Golden Collection Volume 5 in October? -- Smith 23:50, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
- I was interested in Volume 6 when I read the anouncment however, my interest has died down. I am waiting for my copy of "Rocky and Friends Volume 3". I was wondering if I could create a page for Teletoon Retro since there planning to air Fraggle Rock in September. -- Smith 01:04, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
- When in September? If anything's still iffy about it, wait until it actually airs, but if not, it could probably go under Category:International TV Channels. Is this a separate channel from Teletoon, or just a block? Is there anything else relevant that they're showing? (I think Teletoon itself ran Dog City for awhile). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:07, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
Impersonations of Plants
- Hey, it was a natural corollary. There's probably one or two still hiding somewhere on the Wiki, and more to be found, plus I have a few still waiting to be added. Coming soon: Snuffy as a cabbage! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:44, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
- Awesome. I can't wait. And there's got to be a moment when a Fraggle had to dress up as a radish for some reason. -- Danny (talk) 23:57, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Muppets from Sweden
Hi! I saw the page for the Swedish version of Muppets from Space, and I see that there are pictures for the "additional voices" actors. Is that something new we're doing for actors who don't get a page, but who we have a picture of? I was just curious, because I don't remember seeing a page laid out like that before for a major movie dub. -- Ken (talk) 03:21, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's something we'd done before actually (see also Sesamo Apriti and quite a few others), then we removed the galleries when Henrik created pages for those actors. Those pages were recently nuked, so I restored the galleries to house the pictures rather than delete each one, so that way no real relevant information (including the visual information of the pictures) is lost (I used "additional" as an easy organizational tool, but in this case, it just means they're credited but Henrik hasn't figured out yet who they played, same for a few other pages). -- 04:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
I didn't want to interrupt the conversation on Julian T. Kellermann, but I just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading your mini-essays when you discuss stuff like that, or the time you were talking about The Odd Couple and the DePatie-Freleng cartoon. I like the way that all of us have our areas, and it seems like we fit together well! (Kind of a "one body and many parts" thing, huh?) -- Ken (talk) 05:48, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Somebody blanked out Puppets Recycled in Puppet Up!. I was going to undo it, but I didn't know if you wanted to keep what that person did before they changed it, and I didn't even know if what they wrote was accurate anyway. So I just wanted to let you know. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 05:26, 16 August 2008 (UTC)