Heya! I was just in a local B&N where I saw Sesame Street's Mother Goose Rhymes and a few other titles reprinted by Sandy Creek in 2012. And so soon after a 2009 reprint (according to the linked article).
Here's the discussion with the Disney Wiki admin, here. Basically, we politely asked them not to put any affiliate logos or links here, but Scott gave them the go ahead to include it in their list of affiliate links there (since there is a Muppet/Disney connection). In return a Disney Wiki link was added here.
That's all we've done to date, and I doubt we'd do it, even for a Wiki we liked, if there's no connection to our topic, the Muppets (pages like Doctor Who or Star Wars, we're not affiliated officially but we include an appropriate link to the dedicated Wiki below). So if Star-Crossed ever starts making references to the Muppets on a regular basis or has Beaker as a guest, then feel free to ask again! (It's unlikely, but heck, we never expected to have a page for WWE either).
Okay, so you're in general agreement then, I take it.
Also, this is my new favorite discussion thread. Someone asking us for ideas to plan a Muppet party for his 30th birthday. Exactly why Muppet Wiki exists. (I'm glad we no longer have to say "Sorry, take it to Muppet Central or Toughpigs.")
I still hope to some day have a Muppet party and serve Munchos (I still thrill whenever I see a bag in a store, and usually buy it then and there). Sadly I don't think we get La Choy here, so maybe chow mein in general, but served in a cardboard dragon or something.
I can't find anything online to suggest the "not just a musical" dialogue even happened in the episode, so that may be nonsense, but is there a source (the user suggested there was but we never found one)? We know they're Muppet fans, but still, Angels in Manhattan is at least as well known now, so the title could be inspired by either or both (or neither), for all we know. (Apparently some fans argue it's a reference to Karen Gillan's 2012 movie We'll Take Manhattan, but I think either of the other two are more likely if it's a reference; then they also did "Daleks in Manhattan," so...)
It's close enough that if we really think it should be mentioned, it's fine, but I'd rather qualify it a bit (as we have on occasion, something like, "the title is reminiscent, possibly intentionally, of") if we can't find a direct source. I mean we know the Who people like Muppets and it makes more sense than saying "It was inspired by Jason Takes Manhattan," and it probably just sounds like I'm being picky, but I thought it worth bringing up. Andrew Leal (talk) 03:48, November 18, 2013 (UTC)
No, I didn't realize that you guys had talked about it; I was just surprised to notice what looked to me like an obvious omission.
Is there anything else that's actually called "The Blanks Take Manhattan"? I agree that it's all referencing the Rodgers and Hart song originally, but I don't know of any other noteworthy titles with that structure.
I would argue that it's impossible to come up with that construction and not be thinking of The Muppets Take Manhattan, in the same way that you can't call something "The Blank Strikes Back" without recognizing that you're echoing The Empire Strikes Back. Yes, "striking back" is a common phrase, but you couldn't imagine that someone would give a movie or TV show that title in complete ignorance of the Star Wars film.
Two seconds after Stephen Moffatt told someone that the episode was called "The Angels Take Manhattan", the person that he was talking to said, "Oh, like the Muppets." If that was an unwelcome reference, then Moffatt would have changed it. In my opinion, it's just too well-known to be "unconscious."
Do you have a source on the Moffatt thing? If so, I think that's sufficient plus a cute anecdote. Looking back, I see I confused it a bit with Angels in America, so whoops, but that was partly due to the odd edit I'll discuss below.
As you can tell by the article history, we took it out not just because of the discussion but because the person who added it did so in a weird way (claiming a dialogue exchange explicitly saying The Angels Take Manhattan and how it was no longer just a musical), and misspelled Moffatt's name.
I can't find any example of the alleged conversation in the episode's dialogue (unless I'm just overlooking it, I think they just made it up or read a fanfic or who knows what), and Google searching (even under the correct spelling) turned up no interview or website claim. But of course, I trust your Who search powers (and memory for connected interviews, but an actual citation would still be nice if we mention the anecdote of the friend's reaction; otherwise, I'm convinced) compared to a semi-random user who never responded when asked about the passage.
I was originally of the opinion that we should source it as a reference, but Danny makes a good point about it being an unconscious one. The only other "Blank Takes Manhattan" I can think of is that Friday the 13th movie.
Ah, sorry, Danny. As you can see, your rhetorical point confused me *because* the original editor tried to make a claim that Moffatt spoke about it in all of these unfindable places, etc. (plus the dialogue weirdness).
I prefer echoes myself. There's absolutely no way to argue with that, and I just like the phrasing because it sounds classy (and "Doctor Who spin" sounded awkward and also sort of implied this is a specific style the show uses or something).
I put together this page to see if the Muppets truly originated their movie titles or if they were simply playing on existing structures and phrases. I can't find any "Take Manhattan" titles that pre-date The Muppets Take Manhattan, so perhaps the Muppets originated the phrasing and perhaps the "Doctor Who" writers were directly referencing it... or perhaps they were referencing any of the other "Take Manhattan" titles that came later on once the phrase had entered the pop-culture zeitgeist.
As Aleal said, The Muppets were referencing a lyric in a 1925 Rodgers and Hart song, "Manhattan," with the lyric "I'll take Manhattan, the Bronx, and Staten Island too."
They popularized the phrase from the 80s on, and any further references, such as "The Crumpets Take Manhattan," "The Muffins Take Manhattan," "Monk Takes Manhattan," "The Angels Take Manhattan" and so on, are referring to the Muppets film, although not always in any heavy-handed or overt way.
It is fairly common for the Muppet Show Muppets to reference songs old enough that current generations would only know them from their Muppet versions, but a film title makes an even bigger statement.
1) I think The Muppet Movie was called that because it was a natural extension of The Muppet Show, plus the alliteration is easy to say. So I think that title was an original idea.
2) I wonder if The Great Muppet Caper is actually combining two film/TV title traditions: The Great (Something), and The (Something) Caper. I can think of The Great Race and The Great Escape, and I'll have to look up "caper" films. The reason I think that is because nothing before the Muppets' use of it was a major film, only various TV episodes, so I'm not sure if they were quoting/parodying anything.
3) The Follow That list is good, but I wonder also if they were referencing whenever people would yell, "Follow that car!" in a chase scene. Andrew, can you think of movies where they said that? I can't think of specific films, but I have hazy memories of old movies.
Hello ! I'm interested in becoming a chat moderator on this wiki. I know I have not edited alot but I also know I have the skills nessacary to be a chat moderator. If I were a chat mod I would strive to get chat active. Can you tell me the requirments to being a chat mod? Please consider.
I wasn't going to stick my head in here, but I concur. I remember 1979, and it does seem that a lot of things were great that year, especially The Muppet Show and Sesame Street being at their peak. If I ever get a time machine, 1985 and 1979 are two years I'd like to live over again!
I'd say that 1981 was the peak year for Miss Piggy and the Muppets. That was when you could walk into any public building, and there would be something Muppety there. I was 10; it was a beautiful time.
Yeah, I was going to say 1981 was their peak, but it was bittersweet for me, because we had the second movie coming out and the show going off the air literally 2 months apart. It was really sad after watching Muppets 6 days a week for half of my life! (We got The Muppet Show on Saturdays.)
Hi, Chad! You can see some of the history of this wiki on the Muppet Wiki (website) page. We started in December 2005, and the first group of admins and contributors came from our friends on other Muppet fansites like Tough Pigs and Muppet Central. It got big because we love writing about the Muppets, and collecting as much information as we can, and we've been working on it for almost eight years. :)
I used to work for Wikia on the product team, and another admin (Wendy) works for Wikia now on the community support team. For both of us, we were Muppet Wiki contributors for a long time before we applied for jobs at Wikia. We didn't get paid for working on this wiki; this is what we do in our free time.
whats your job now ? And thats awesOME ! wass this one of the first wikias? Thats a long time, did it start out small AND not very nicE? And eventually build UP? i hope one daay my wikia gets big like urs!