Muppet Wiki

Garrettk41

aka Garrett Kieran

4,284 Edits since joining this wiki
April 17, 2007
157.55.39.100
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  • I was trying to add a picture to the Spike (monster) page, but it came out terrible, so I had to get rid of it. How do I add a picture?

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  • Hi, Garrett. Re your latest additions here, *please* cite your sources. If you're still forgetting, see Muppet Wiki:Citations#Sources for the basic code, and for Facebook or e-mail communication, say with whom, use your first initial and last name, and the date. It really is vital.

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    • "At the bottom, if it's not already there, add a Sources heading and <references/> so the tags don't break."

      The warning message even tells you: "Cite error: <ref> tags exist, but no <references/> tag was found "

      So just add a Sources heading at the bottom, and that references tag. I'm glad you asked. How Now Brown and the Moo Wave already had a sources section and the tag, so that's why it worked without any additional code.

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    • Well, someone beat me to it. The Do Op page is now fixed. Maybe I'd better learn some more pieces of trivia, just so I can practice with this whole sourcing business.

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  • Hi, Garrett! You never responded to my last comments, so maybe the point got lost. Basically, "to a friend/fan" citations are improper, and could mean anything. Who is the friend? Who is the fan? I'm *assuming* it's you, and not something you read on David Rudman's Facebook in answer to someone else, but if so, you really need to say so. For examples, see Snow White (series) ("Personal communication, D. Horn and K. Falk. January 31, 2006"), Minor Unfinished Projects ("Personal communication, Scott Hanson and Craig Shemin"; the date should be there, but at least we know who told who) and most recently The Primitives ("Ed Christie, quoted in personal communication between G. Harding and Karen Falk. June 5, 2013." That really is a perfect example).

    Is it because you're uncomfortable revealing your name? We'd be fine with first initial last name, but it really needs to be attributed, or it opens the door to all kinds of "So and so told someone who told someone" sourcing, which is unacceptable. We've used talk pages too (see Number 3 Ball Film), just parking the whole communication there and then citing the talk page, although we should fix and standardize that. We need to start a conversation soon to remind everyone about citation and formats, but I wanted to hear back from you first: whether you just didn't think it was needed, or whether it's a personal reluctance to state that it came from correspondence between you and a performer, which frankly is basically a necessity when it comes to original research, which Wikipedia tries to ban entirely, but which we encourage... as long as it's clearly cited. You're not the only user who's had trouble with citations lately, so it's not personal, but knowing the reasons would help when I have time to finally start the community discussion on one of the forum threads (if it's just a "Whoops, I forgot," then I don't need to get into it beyond a general reminder of how to cite personal correspondence; if it's the other, then we'd need to discuss that as a community and reach a consensus).

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    • Hey there, Andrew. Well, first of all, if I remember correctly, your last message asked why I had removed a reference I had previously tried to post. That was because for some reason, it didn't come out correctly. Some odd message in red came up instead saying it wasn't submitted or something along those lines. Since I was the only one who would be able to cite it correctly, I simply decided to give it another try later on. But as for revealing my name, you nailed it. I don't really dig the idea of my full name actually being listed on a Wiki page. But judging from what you said, I guess I have no choice.Well, if I can at least keep my first name to just an initial, that's at least something. I'll keep that in mind for the future.

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    • Thanks! Just so we know, yeah. It was in the message before that, in the same thread, so I can see now how you missed it. Here's what I wrote: "The "and fan" stuff is a little confusing too.

      If you're a bit uncomfortable with the name, well, that's partly the burden of doing original research, but you could leave it without the name but linking to your talk page, to be more circumspect and that's not easily Google searchable. Or else you'd have to mention it on the talk page of each article so it would be clear who added it. For an example, see Talk:Fran_Brill_Cameos#Muppets Take Manhattan (which is also an example of one of the many reasons we're cautious about IMDb)."

      Since then, Scott wasn't so keen on just the username but I stll think that's probably something we could discuss (since your userpage has your fullname anyway, so there would still be an easy way to check, but it's not the established academic form and does look more amateurish). Basically there *has* to be personal attribution of some kind. Initials are fine (for a long time, I used just my first initial and last name in various online places, but it doesn't matter to me now, plus I got tired of people calling me "Aleal" like it was my name, and so on, and it's also been easier when trying to do research when some of my contacts could say "Oh yeah, I read your post and I have some more info to add to that.") It's basically what comes of doing research and correspondence in a way that can't be directly linked (in contrast to forum posts, Twitter messages, etc.) and it's basically something we as researchers need to be either willing to accept, or it can't be used. Outside of needing to follow form, it just looks bad to see that "So and so told a friend." Who's that friend?? It looks like we're just using rumors. In any cases where the correspondence *does* take place in public, where the Facebook is fully open to the public say or in Q&As on Muppet Central forums or anything like that (we've even used answers on Twitter, as long as we link to the exact tweet), than a link is sufficient, the evidence is right there and we can read what the puppeteer said, we're not trusting what a user says they were told (in which case, one has to know the user).

      Thanks for understanding! And as I said, you're not the only one who's been omitting citations lately, but the other user has been using edit summaries at least so it will be a little easier to track down the examples. I'll work on explaining it all in a community post soon-ish; still prepping the house for my mother to get home from rehab though so that's been taking a lot of time).

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  • Hi, Garrett, what's the source of all of the non-speaking David Rudman IDs you're adding? If it's an interview, you should really cite it. (If you need help with tags, that's fine, but just use <ref>Link or Name. Date.</ref> and make sure there's a <references/> tag at the bottom. If it's from behind the scenes pictures, then link to the picture, or cite video footage, or whatever.

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    • Hi, Garrett, I'm a little confused by your change here, which you undid. Were you the friend or was it someone else? Regardless, if you have a specific date, it's fine. We prefer that to leaving it unsourced. The "and fan" stuff is a little confusing too.

      If you're a bit uncomfortable with the name, well, that's partly the burden of doing original research, but you could leave it without the name but linking to your talk page, to be more circumspect and that's not easily Google searchable. Or else you'd have to mention it on the talk page of each article so it would be clear who added it. For an example, see Talk:Fran_Brill_Cameos#Muppets Take Manhattan (which is also an example of one of the many reasons we're cautious about IMDb).

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    • Ah, I *think* I've figured out what your problem was. A coding error? See my first post in this thread: "If you need help with tags, that's fine, but just use <ref>Link or Name. Date.</ref> and make sure there's a tag at the bottom."

      The code won't work without that tag. Many of our longer or more source heavy pages have it, but most of the short song or one-shot character pages wouldn't. Just add it to the bottom, under the heading "Sources." And if you need help with that, feel free to just be a little more specific in the edit summary, "I need some coding help." You're getting it, though! Thanks again!

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  • Hi Garrett. What's you source for Tim Curry trying a peg-leg?

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    • You keep a very sharp point on your pencil, don't you Andrew? That's quite a handful of mistakes you've kept track of. Well, if all that is the case, then you're right. I never knew about Virginia McKenna being listed as having voiced the mother wolf in "The Jungle Book", but if it really was once, that's pathetic. She didn't even say anything in the whole movie. I confess I had for a while bought the rumor that Oz was in consideration to direct "...Chocolate Factory" before I learned the truth, although for the record, I don't think IMDb started it, just believed it. At any rate, someone ought to listen to the commentary to confirm the fact I submitted.

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    • Yeah, that was the larger point. IMDb *doesn't* really start anything, they take what's submitted, and a lot of it is junk, and it's much more work to remove something (that was just the tip of the iceberg). And that includes every element of IMDb just about (the big exception is IMDb resumes, since those *are* only the domain of the person, or that person's agent/representation; sometimes the resumes have even contradicted or included info not on IMDb). IMDb staff mostly keeps the site running, promotion, etc., they have no staff to actually *watch* anything or do independent research (and to get any errors fixed, one either has to submit multiple corrections over the course of *years*, or to bring it up on the forum specifically to the attention of someone to correct it, and then only after a long record of unsuccessful efforts; I speak from decades of experience, now mostly abandoned as too much work). That's all been mentioned here before, and the reason for the policy. We'll check the commentary when we can, but just remember, please, Garrett, never again add something like this with IMDb as the one and only source (same with Wikipedia).

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  • Hi Garrett! I can't help but notice that in a few of your edits, you've been putting periods outside of the quotation marks. However, according to the style guide, they're actually supposed to be inside the quotation marks. It's not a big deal, but I'd figured I'd let you know.

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