re: Recurring female Muppets, it's like you're inside my head. I've been wanting to do this for ages, and a while ago, I was shot down from doing male/female categories for characters in the interest of keeping a running tally. I was just the other day thinking of doing pretty much what you've put together here, so thanks!
Great minds think alike I guess... it's interesting that the Muppets (with their 900+ characters) have had less than 25 real established female characters... and only 4 or 5 of them have had any real substantial recurrence or longevity.
As has been well documented, the Muppets have a big gender gap. I was thinking about maybe expanding the article to include some quotes and analysis about the lack of female Muppets (I think the question came up at Comic-Con or D23 and in some press for the new show...and I think some of the comicbook writers have commented on the difficulty in casting the various storybook adaptations due to lack of females to fill the roles). But I don't have the time to dig around for those quotes right now.
At least the two recurring human cast members of The Muppets (Kim and Betty) are both girls.
Hey Brad! We're discussing Bear airdates on the forum, and it was pointed out that we have them from TV Guide which you archived here. TV Guide's current site is incomplete, so I'm assuming through their own site changes, they've lost some data. I just wanted to confirm that all the dates came from them.
Yes, all of the dates came from TV Guide's website. I pulled them off there back in late-2013 when I was starting to collect data for this page. It does look like their archival TV listings are no longer all on the website. But I can confirm that all the air dates I got came from TV Guide's original listings on tvguide.com.
I was somewhat surprised when I found that no one else had started one... so I bit the bullet and started the article.
It is striking to see all the previous attempts listed out... for the first few years that they owned them, it was pretty much an annual tradition for Disney to produce a pilot presentation with the Muppets.
I saw you made edits to Emmett Otter's Jug-Band Christmas a few years ago regarding the 1977 HBO and 1980 ABC edits. By how it's written I'm a little confused, is the list of 1980 edits mostly things that were cut (though it mentions fade-outs which would have been new alterations) or added for that broadcast? It would make sense for that to be a list of what was cut out, since the 1980 edit was on commercial television as opposed to commercial-free premium television.
The alterations to the 1980 edit were a variety of minor adjustments (mainly to fit the time slot and act-break constraints and flow). Most were tiny cuts, but some were oddly additions of alternate or extra lines; and there were other alterations like the fades to/from commercials and the closing credits. Looking at it now, the list is not clear on what changed (was it added or deleted) and I don't recall off hand which items on the list were deleted lines/scenes and which were added lines/scenes or which were just otherwise reworked/adjusted scene; but I think the DVD "alternate/deleted scenes" feature shows all these alterations for comparison.
The original 1977 edit was 54 minutes long... the 1980 edit was 52 minutes long... the 1996 edit was 49 minutes long... and the 2005 edit is also 49 minutes long.
With all these edits, I must wonder what was up with the edits on the 1996 release (and I didn't know that the 1996 and 1998 releases had the same edits). I think Muppet Central had speculated years ago that Henson made a new master tape with edits that I thought were edited for commercial time, but if that's the case, I wonder what broadcasts edited them (I assume the Odessy Channel made the same edits, but this came before Odessy). I know that Nickelodeon aired the special with at least most of the scenes that were edited from video (my copy of a Nick airing begins late, after a few of the scenes that were edited later on video, and I don't really remember those from when I was a kid, but that doesn't mean they were or weren't cut).
Hey, Brad! How did you find out about the sheet music book for Muppets Most Wanted? I've been looking since March, and I couldn't find anything, and the sites I usually check still don't show anything. I'm really glad they made one after all, because we didn't get a Spanish CD this time, and I was afraid they were cutting back on merchandise. Thanks for finding the ISBN, too. That will really help when I go to my local music store!
Hey Brad! I really dig your hand inside page and I was thinking we should turn it into a real page. I was feeling iffy about it though because we don't really track references outside of their own page like that. But I think the Muppets have made the joke enough times to warrant an article about it, and then feature the references in a gallery below. What do you think?
Hi Brad, I went ahead and merged the Creature TV show episode list into the Creature TV show page. Per wiki policy, we don't give post-2005 Henson projects full wiki coverage outside of one page for the project.
Sorry, I knew the rules limited Henson's post-2004 projects that are non-Muppet related and/or non-Creature related (things like Sid the Science Kid, Pajanimals, Unstable Fables, Dinosaur Train, Neil's Puppet Dreams, and Puppet Up!) to just one page, but I thought we were still giving the same level coverage to Muppet projects and Creature projects (regardless of if they're pre- or post-2004).
I think we made the right decision. As lovely as the creatures are on the show and (to use another example) Where the Wild Things Are, there are a dozen other projects that just aren't practical to track.
Fair enough. I think it works as a single-page right right now (not sure if the current format will hold up if the show continues for 10 seasons, but we'll see).
Now the show has featured (non-canonical) appearances of Creatures and worlds that we do track with full-coverage on the wiki (the Skeksis from The Dark Crystal appeared and were the subject of an entire episode; and Rygel from Farscape made an appearance too); the show also uses lots of footage/pictures from many Creature projects that we do give full coverage to (The Dark Crystal, Labyrinth, The Storyteller, Farscape, Dinosaurs, and even some Muppet and Sesame Street productions) and neat behind-the-scenes experiences and techniques from those projects are explained and discussed (from Brian Henson explaining tricks used on The Muppet Christmas Carol to Julie Zobel describing the creation of Tee Hee and Kirk Thatcher discussing the origins of Ethyl Phillips). I'm not sure if that's enough to count this as a sort of spin-off of our full-coverage franchises (like how Return to Labyrinth, the Emmet Otter musical or The Doozers, which are post-2004 Henson Company projects, still get fuller coverage because of their connection to established worlds we do cover). If not (or even if so), would all the references and appearances of the full-coverage franchises make the show fall into the "TV Appearance" or "TV Mention" categories too? This show, with all its references to old Henson Company work, falls into a new category we haven't really seen before.