Andrew, I meant to write to you about this quite some time ago but never got around to it until now. When I added Paul Frees to the connections section of "Twice Upon a Time", you deleted him saying something about it just being lip synch. I don't understand what you mean by that. He was the voice of multiple characters, he's listed in the credits, and everything. Would you mind cluing me in as to why you don't think he should be referenced in the connections?
It means he isn't actually a connection because the Muppets lip-synched to his voice (way back I thought he'd done a commercial for them and it was proven incorrect), anymore than Ronald Reagan is for using clip footage. The connections section is for people who directly worked with the Muppets in a Muppet relevant project (or wrote something for Miss Piggy's books, took a picture, etc.)
It's why Paul Frees isn't on Old-time radio either. Any summary that says "no direct connection" (and you'll find a lot of them from a lot of people), that's what it means. Not questioning their involvement in that page or subject, but that they didn't work with the Muppets, were just referenced or had their voice or footage sampled and so forth.
No. A rule of thumb, check how a person is categorized. If a person's page is in Category:Celebrities or any of the direct actor/writer/crew categories, they're fair game for connections.
If it's in references or mentions only, they're not. That's why It's a Wonderful Life or a few other old movie pages link the stars from the top if they have pages... but not as connections, because James Stewart and Lionel Barrymore never worked with the Muppets. Similar to when someone wanted to add as connections to Epic Rap Battles of History every historical or fictional character portrayed, which didn't fit because those were usually only in as references, and those that weren't were impersonated, so either way it's not actually a connection.
I heard you guys say in Policies and Guidelines that you guys don't rely on memories for information, and I also heard Oscarfan say in a Muppet Central post "Memory Isn't Always Reliable". Why don't you guys trust our memories?
For the reason you mentioned. Memory alone isn't reliable. We don't trust our own memories generally until or unless verified by actual evidence (the source show, production documents, interview, whatever). People remember things or guests on Sesame Street or Muppet productions that never happened, and that's where rumors come from. I've remembered thinking a character was probably played by one performer, then find video footage and clear proof it wasn't. On and on it goes.
Memory cannot be verified since it's only in your head and can change with the years. A photograph or video of what you remember seeing, that can be shared and confirmed or corrected ("No, that's not so and so, that's...") It's as simple as that. Sometimes you can ask "I remember such and such happening" on a forum and someone else may actually have a video link or a document to add to it. But we can't just go by "I remember this," because our approach is encyclopedic and based on citing sources. Memory is not encyclopedic and can only be sourced outside of itself (that's what we mean by verifying a memory).
Since I know you're good at digging up credits and other roles of people, the Sesamstrasse fanclub site has a section on their guest starts throughout the years and I thought it could be a nice little side project if you'd want to take it on.
Thanks! I'd seen that when you linked to to Julian before (it's a shame the site's robot now prevents archive.org from showing the old pages, which I used; they had info on insert actors, including one also listed as a guest star). The guest star page is how I was able to start Wolfgang Völz.
But I see some additions (again including some folks who overlapped, repeat visits or dubbing or something) and a couple names I already knew from other stuff. Plus right now I've been researching German radio databases (finding out who of cast/dubbing voices overlapped with the OTR era) and finding some neat connections with one person in particular.
Heya! Nice start on Los Teleñecos. I wonder how far back the name goes. The earliest I know of is 1995, the year before Muppets Tonight started, for a set of trading stickers (and again for Los Teleñecos (magazine)). That product isn't likely to get its own page, but I'm curious about where else has the name been used.
Actually the name goes back a lot further (you'll see it used in Spanish dub titles of movies, as above). In fact it goes at least as far back as the dub of The Muppet Show at least. (As far as I'm aware, the term was never used for the Sesame co-productions and so on, just to indicate the Muppet Show-related troupe.)
The word is a portmanteau, of "muñecos" (puppets, also means dolls) and of course "tele." So basically it means "television puppets." The dub of Muppet Babies was called Los Pequeñecos as a reference ("pequeño" is, of course, little). It was never used outside of Spain (which is why the name is a dead giveaway that it's a Castilian dub and not from Mexico or another Latin American country).
Then with the 2011 movie, Disney (and Disney Character Voices International, which oversees the dubs for consistency) decided they should be Muppets on everything in Spain too. There's enough info definitely to start a page explaining the term itself.
We don't usually disambiguate by using the original title in parentheses (in fact this would be the first), but in this case, I can't think of anything else that works (well, maybe "series" but we'd have to clarify in article text; that's happened before anyway with translations where titles are too similar, i.e. Les Muppets (French TV)).
I'm checking on that. The Spanish dubbing database has The Muppet Show as El Show de los Teleñecos (although I need to fix that page a bit; some of the text doesn't make sense).
On albums from the seventies etc, they use "Los Teleñecos" *but* the way its used implies its referring to the characters rather than an actual show title (see the above image, which makes me very happy by the way). And the actual show opening? Doesn't use anything at all! (The lyrics say "nuestra show," our show and so on). The only magazines from Spain I can find say things like "Elton John con los Teleñecos," so not a direct reference to the show title.
Indications that it was El Show de los Teleñecos: the Spanish versions of the Buena Vista VHS releases used it. And right now, probably the best evidence, to my pleasant surprise, RTE (which aired the show) has archives of some of their old shows, including 625 lineas, a sort of news/talk show. In a 1979 installment, one of the presenters interviews a puppet Kermit or "Gustavo" (not the real one), then talks to the dubbing voice who pops up behind, José Martínez Blanco. She introduces the segment by referring to El Show de los Teleñecos. So with confusion from record labels and the intro, it still seems like the network that aired it at the time would know what they were calling it. In which case we could disambiguate the Muppets Tonight dub as "Los Teleñecos (series)."
Yeah, the Spanish version was a straight dub (and perhaps not as closely coordinated either, who knows). One reason Disney Character Voices International is now so concerned with consistency (in voices and names, although obviously it's rubbed some folks the wrong way to get used to a new name for Kermit or Goofy or whoever from what they've used for over forty years or more).
And here's a pic from the interview I mentioned:
They also show grainy clips of Ben Vereen on The Muppet Show (and keep calling him "Gallito George," since he played Chicken George in Roots).
Hmmm... I disagree. I would be fine with deleteing all of the drama-related stuff and just stating the facts, but I guess it's your call. It is a piece of SS history. I'm not sure what you mean by "one-shots", but it is arguably a song.
I guess it's better for the creppypasta Wiki, though I would like to know the info behind this short one day.
Hi, please read the text on Category:Sesame Street Animated Segments. This is the definition: "Recurring animated segments produced for Sesame Street, as well as animated songs, Jim Henson-directed shorts, and one-shots with direct Muppet significance."
One-shot means not a series, just used once (and by direct Muppet signifiance, The Noble Ostrich has a Big Bird cameo).
To qualify for a song page, we need basic info like composer and official registered titles (if there's singing in it but it's not really a song, it doesn't count). That's our basic policy, because otherwise any info on stand-alone inserts can just be included in a table (the fact that there's no clear source for the title, a lot of fans call it "Crackmaster" and we wouldn't use that either, and it's otherwise "We don't know much about it but a lot of people are interested in it" is basically why it can't support its own page.)
You could park all of the text if you like (and if you want me to retrieve it for you, I can) on say your own talk page or user page. But for an encyclopedic project, for years our policies have been to avoid pages like that. Sorry, it's a matter of tone.
What's the deal? Why have you guys been deleting the pictures I put up? They've been on here for quite some time. Why take down the pic I posted in Annie Sue's page of her in "Muppets Most Wanted"? And what is this about an edit summary?
As for other deletions, you'll see from the logs that in fact many old pictures are being deleted. It's not aimed at you, it's just a general clean-up of old clutter. We used to clean up the Unused pictures section regularly (as in every few months), but we as admins had let it slip by so recently we had more than five or six years worth. As far as I'm aware, the pictures being deleted aren't on any pages anyway and some I had recognized of yours had been unused for more than two or three years (removed long ago for reasons either explained to you then, or because it was blurry, an upgrade was letter found, or there were too many on the page). If you wish to keep them personally, the best thing to do is place them on your user page in a gallery.
I'm not sure what you're referring to as far as an edit summary.
I like indeed! First picture I've seen of any of the Jack Parnell orchestra with a Muppet, let alone with a guest star as well. I stuck it on Musicians for Muppets (which I need to revamp and I wasn't sure how to illustrate anyway).