Hey, Julian said they did a completely different joke in German when they get to the poster that says, "Die[,] Muppets"! Have we ever made a page that's called something like "Muppet Gags that Don't Translate"? I wonder how many times this has happened.
Hi! Belated reply, but I've still been diving into the German stuff. Peter Flechtner, who dubbed Jean-Pierre Napoleon and has one or two other Muppet connections, was in Schindler's List! (Small part as an SS officer; we still just have the VHS, so I'll need to pick it out.)
Anyway, the answer is yes! Sometimes it's something not translating, sometimes it's changing it for local reasons. This doesn't just happen with phrases but also references to people or movies and so on. One change on Die Muppet Show which I still don't fully comprehend is switching Mickey Rooney (in the Paul Williams ep) to Mickey Mouse! (Rooney was known in Germany, but then again, unlike say John Wayne, never quite as big, plus it's unclear just what age they thought their target audience was). But a bigger one occurred in the Rich Little episode (which was based on dodgy imitations of mostly US celebs anyway, some of which are hard to figure out even without dubbing!) Anyway, the W. C. Fields impression in the cold open... is referred to by Scooter as Bill Ramsey, an American singer who hit it big when he moved to Germany. He is a little chubby, but certainly didn't say "Godfrey Daniels" (that was kept) or wear a scarf and top hat.
I had to cancel Netflix for now, cutting back on things, but before I did, they added Spanish dubs of Muppet Movie and Great Muppet Caper (not the original Muppet Movie dub; this one seems to have been done during the 1990s when Disney had the video rights, but not sure if it was released then, and GMC never had a theatrical dubbed release in Latin America as far as I can tell). In Caper, they drop the Dear Abby joke (instead, Fozzie says "I'll choose the paper that carries the comics," since that's more universal.)
There's also creating new jokes, often out of character names (in both the German and Israeli Sesame dubs, Guy Smiley is renamed to reflect a celebrity TV host or quizmaster from that country; or Lefty becoming "Schlemihl," with obvious connotations.)
Cool, thanks! Did laserdiscs ever have multiple tracks in different languages? I was thinking how people would get copies of older movies, back when another company owned them, and the dubbing might have been different, like what happened to Muppet stuff. I guess the only other way would be to track down foreign copies, and invest in foreign players to play them on!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think two of your examples for a "medium" reference have nothing to do with the use of the word in terms of Television and Radio (the James Coco one and the El Sleezo one).
They derive from Fred Allen's original quote, though (which circulated widely, although eventually most people forgot exactly what he said, or where, and some added the "rare" part), which was delivered by a radio star on radio. So it doesn't matter what they're referring to, it all goes back to the same source. (I had to do some digging to track down the exact date and the exact wording.)
In the case of the Fozzie bit, they're referencing the misquote but actually come closer to what Allen said. Here are some examples of the variations, and that's just from print sources (online you find more). Also, Leslie Halliwell inexplicably attributed it to Ernie Kovacs; I can't find any substantiation to that, and any that do assign it to Kovacs cite Halliwell (also with the "rare" part, which was already being added when still attributed to Allen in magazines in the 1950s and 60s) or nobody, but if he did say it, it was after Allen (more likely, it's because it *sounds* like something Kovacs might have said.)
That part would be too much detail for the article anyway (I actually hesitated to add the passage originally just because I'm proud of the find and I'm wanting to work it into a book, with other entries on how popular culture confuses the origins of characters and settings, from Frankenstein's Monster to Sherlock Holmes to "the butler did it"). But that may never come to pass and it's good info that needs to be shared, though I doubt it will ever stop the misquoting, any more than "Play it again, Sam" or "Judy, Judy, Judy" will disappear (the latter seems to come from Cary Grant imitators, and specifically Will Jordan as far as my researches show).
I wouldn't have tracked it down at all if I hadn't found an early magazine reference which specified that he said it to Tallullah Bankhead (which meant it had to be The Big Show, where both were regulars, and I just had to find some copies online, listen to a few until I reached it, mark the date, and transcribe... all of which was easier said than done, but very satisfying to finally cite the exact source!)
Hey Andrew. Could you check this pdf file and see if it is corrupted for you or not? It works fine for me but is corrupted for Scott. Opinions on the usefulness of a pdf over a bunch of gifs also welcome :). Thanks!
I checked it on IE 11 and Google Chrome (I don't currently have Firefox installed). It worked on both.
However, this is the first time (as far as I know) that we've uploaded an entire pdf. It raises issues as far as precedent (I wouldn't be too comfortable if people started uploading every Sesame Workshop or Jim Henson Company press announcement pdf). I think this calls for a community discussion (or at least more admins) since it strikes me as more than just a casual change.
Concern about the current jpgs, well, they do show up as thumbnails and we could actually add captions to summarize the content of each (the pdf isn't searchable). Plus for the longest time those files were on the talk page, mainly info parking for our internal use or when the "Where did this come from?" question arose, one could link to the actual individual jpg as evidence (we've done this with various document scans, whether we just have one or an entire group; a pdf wouldn't allow for direct page linking that way, and we'd want to check each page to make sure they're not linked elsewhere if we considered getting rid of them), and moved in part due to the changes in talk pages and forums. Mostly though I'm just concerned about our hosting such files and making sure, if we do, we set limits, as well as compatibility issues (I've often had trouble with broken pdfs at one point from other sites, and at another time they work, or their length seems to break Adobe unless saved, and all kinds of oddness).
I'm also thinking of how it might encourage some of our more problematic users or spammers (we can control it of course, but it's still a potential issue). As is, we'd already decided not to include sound files except under special circumstances, that all moving gifs had to have a full explanation (and there's a page to host those and keep track of them, and really only admins have added those or, if another user has one they think shows evidence of something, they ask the admin first, etc.) For this particular document, I can see the usefulness, but it's still something where I'd feel better if we established both consensus and guidelines first, before adding it to the main article page.
I'd be more comfortable if, say, the user uploaded it to an external space and we linked to that (and I'd feel the same way if it was a spreadsheet, zip file, or anything else we're not in the habit of hosting, however useful).
I wish I knew why Scott sees the files as corrupted.
I don't specifically see any issues with pdfs vs. jpg or gif -- wikia supports all of them so I don't think hosting them should really be a concern; we (muppet) have historically preferred the images I thought because they were so visual. But for a text document that makes little sense. Plus I'm not sure why having a link to the file on wikia's servers vs. having a link to the file offsite makes a huge difference (other than the part where we send people away from the wiki which is sort of a negative in my mind).
The guy who uploaded it has already been through official Wikia "Contact", and two versions trying to upload here (the first version was too large). I appreciate his persistence actually. I guess in a pinch I could upload it to my test wiki and we could link to it there.
If we didn't already have the entire document on the page as images (which he in fact used to create the pdf) then I would be more worried. As a general policy I agree, yes, full documents are probably a bit beyond the dictates of fair use. Did we ever talk about this before for the images of the Encyclopedia?
I hadn't really thought about the ability to direct link a given page; that is handy. I was thinking more of the useability aspect of finding the information in the first place. No, the pdf is not searchable but it loads all at once so you can scroll up and down in it.
At anyrate, a public discussion works for me. As soon as I get over the rest of this stomach bug (thanks kids!) I'll start one.
Wikia supports sound files too and Danny vetoed that long ago too (except in very rare cases for talk pages when trying to identify a voice). Pdfs *are* different than jpg/gif in that they have fewer inherent limits and could be anything. Also, unlike an image, where we can see at a glance if it's spam, obscene, or just poor quality, one has to open or download a Pdf. As I said, my concern isn't really over this specific pdf, but we have to have guidelines first because otherwise people will rush in and things can get complicated (we did the same when we started allowing video links, and then video embeds).
I don't see any fair use issues in this case either. But remember the issue we've had with certain users overdoing it with watermarked images from Henson's redbook. One of those users was also continually uploading every image of a storybook (from Toughpigs), so with pdfs, that would be much easier (many DVDs and book on tape formats come with their own pdf versions, activity pages, or whatever, and those are all easily extracted). Also making sure that every "Color with Elmo" or whatever pdf supplement from Sesame Workshop isn't put here, since it would be pointless. With pdfs, and piracy, there are ways to rip entire books, or even just stuff like authorized downloadable sample chapters from the Henson bio or Street Gang or whatever, which are fine to link to but not stuff we need to host here (and other potential problems which I'll save for community discussion). So again, I'm more worried about precedent than this particular file so that's what I'd like to see: guidelines.
Belated hi, since I never did write back (had a nice Easter, though!) Still catching up. But you'll like this. In addition to still getting together the Spanish dubbing cast for Muppets Most Wanted (the dubbing Wiki included credits screengrabs, as I think I told you), I'm finding bits and pieces on the German dub (to supplement what Julian just added, or help figure out some matches).
And I picked up a *bilingual* copy of Farmer Grover (El Ranchero Grover) from 1986, part of a series of Golden bilingual books (Spanish first, then English in bold) to recognize "the special interests of the US Spanish-speaking community and of families who want their children to experience a second language early on." I'll scan it later!
Finally, our new TV provider (DISH) lets me watch DVR-ed episodes of Plaza Sesamo (or anything) on the PC, so I can take screengrabs!
Wow! I can't believe I never saw bilingual Golden books around here. There would sure be a market for them. I've also always wondered why there were never any Spanish book and audio sets. I can't think of any Spanish records besides the Sesame Mucho album, and then some various bilingual tracks that have appeared on records and CD's over the years. I'm still stumped as to why we can't find any kind of albums from Plaza Sesamo. Given that a huge part of the US has watched it from the beginning, I'm surprised that they never made records. If they did, they're sure hard to find.
I'm sure Julian's dying to finally see Muppets Most Wanted, but it's not coming out in Germany until May 1st! That's like a summer movie for them! Please let me know if you find anything out about a Spanish CD for MMW. There may not be a US Spanish CD, but I have a feeling they're not making them anymore, because I couldn't find one for Frozen either. But I'm thinking they could still be pressing them in Mexico, for Mexico. Quieres hacer un muneco?
I don't have it personally, but someone on German dubbing forums does. However, it might be just a promotional copy or something. All I could find on Amazon is the "horspiele" or audiobook. The only soundtrack is an import of the English version. But they did release both the audiobook and soundtrack last time, so we'll see.
Okay, I did find a soundtrack, but it looks like it may be a manufacture on demand-style rip of the mp3 version. (I think you have to register with Amazon.de specifically to be able to sample any of it).
Cool! I was waiting until after the movie opened in Germany to see if Julian got one. I'm curious if they'll get a German release in English, or a German edition, or both. Either way, we can add them to the foreign section. Thanks!
Heya! Your edit summary here reads to me like you kept a notebook from watching the MuppetToons when they were still online and wrote down the credits at the end. Am I reading that right? I ask because Craig can't remember whether or not he wrote some of that stuff.
Hi. I've been offline for most of the last two weeks (couldn't afford the bill) but exactly, thus the summary. I wasn't able to transcribe every episode (I only saw "The Stream" and "Net Congestion"; judging from Jerry Nelson and Frank Oz' names in my list, the latter is where Shemin's credit comes from, he may or may not have written others but probably), but at the time I had a project trying to track credits of animated webseries (there was a boom in them at the time). I know I missed a few additional puppeteers and don't think I even thought of designers, but writers were easy to track. For awhile, waaaay back, Awn.com (Animation World Network) actually had a regular section reviewing relevant series as they put out new episodes, so they had short blurbs and episode summaries, but they're gone now. Frankly, I'm not entirely certain the last two titles ever even made it over the internet (it was pretty common at the time for these series to have "Next episode coming soon!" promotions... and it never came). If I can figure out via Archive.org or something where the original webseries reviews/update column was from, I might be able to suss it out when I feel better (in addition to nearly two weeks web deprivation, also getting over a cold and right now very queasy).
I did find one news post though (April 2000), no new credits, but a little more background including a clearer timeline indicator (no dates at all are on that page) and statement of exactly what the digital plans were: http://www.awn.com/news/muppetoons-3d
Yep, the edit summary means exactly what I wrote. I also kept some of it in a word doc of that sort of thing. At the time, Scifi.com also had Seeing Ear Theater, which included radio-style audio dramas mixed with old radio broadcasts of scifi-themes or Asimov, Bradbury, etc. Those had the credits on the webpages, so I printed those out and later compiled. They go back to at least 2000 now or maybe 2001, but I have a few still in an old folder (easier to find in some cases than the notebooks; I go through those periodically but a few by now have just torn up, plus just did some cleaning and dusting so a lot of those that remain were shoved in different crevices). If I find the dates, I might be able to figure out when on archive.org to check AWN.com to try to find those listings (which noted the exact dates when the web shorts went online).
Hi! Somebody just uploaded the back cover of the Sesam (soundtrack) album, and they have the performers' names, and some text describing what the songs and skits are about. So I just wanted to mention it to you in case you feel like playing around with some Swedish (which is almost as much fun as playing around in Sweden), and we might be able to identify more tracks on the album!
And I'm going crazy for next Friday, along with everybody else in Muppet fandom. Still no sign of a Spanish soundtrack, but then I can't see one for Frozen, either. I wonder if they stopped doing them for the US market?
Hi! I just caught the end credits of a Christian sports movie called Reggie's Prayer, and Emilio Delgado is in it as a "Stadium Announcer". A bunch of other people are in it, like Pat Morita and M.C. Hammer, and Rosey Grier and other sports people. I made a place for it in case you or anybody else runs across it. It was a nice surprise, as I'm working on a whole new set of Australian CD's that have come out since last year (20 so far!), and they're making some more next month. What's the story on SS down under? Are they still showing the show, or some form of it? I find it interesting that as we're moving to download-only albums, they're keeping the Sony Wonder era in print on a new series from Universal Australia, but the funny thing is that they're using Koch-era covers, and some of them were never even on Koch here, so they look like US front covers, except for the few titles that are spelled "favourite"!
Yay, a puzzle! Well, it definitely has a 1940s look to it. There's just a passing resemblance to Richard Widmark but it's not him (likely someone of his *type* as they say, perhaps more often seen in noirs or thrillers than a mainstream leading man). Definitely not someone on the Jimmy Stewart/Cary Grant/Bogey/Gary Cooper level of stardom, so either more second tier (Rory Calhoun, Guy Madison, Randolph Scott-level but it's none of them) or a genre specialist or even more in the area of villains/heavies.
I'm going through books I have on studio contract players, and checking with film scholar friends (the editor of Kermit Culture wrote a book called Beyond Casablanca on overlooked classic movies, so I've sent the pic to her). I'll get back to you. Whee!
I do indeed! My editor thought it looked a lot like Van Heflin, and it is close (see here), but I don't think it's quite right (hair part, a couple of details, though it's a little hard to be sure because of the pixels; if I find an exact match of that studio pic for anyone, well, that will settle it right there). That's the right direction to be looking, though, as far as actor types.
Not impossible but extremely unlikely, because producers didn't get glamour photographs and weren't usually shown at all (and also the idea would be to have pictures of a studio's stars on the wall). At most, a really top star director *maybe* (it took a Welles, DeMille, Hitchcock, Capra, or Preston Sturges to really get any kind of exposure), but it still has more of an actor's pose to it than a director (who were usually photographed at work, or with a pipe, like an author's photo). I still have some feelers out.
That said, since it was used as a prop more than anything, fame wouldn't necessarily be a factor and sometimes really inexplicable choices happened. There's a 1945 comedy, It's in the Bag, starring radio humorist Fred Allen with Jack Benny, Rudy Vallee, John Carradine, tons of comedians, character people and radio actors. In a scene in a movie theater manager's office, as discovered by another friend via Blu-ray, there's a framed picture of George Zucco of all people (best known for his work in mystery and horror films, and only ever a top-billed actor in the latter, usually for "poverty row" films, at the time including such really below B-grade stuff as Voodoo Man where he plays a gas station attendant who's secretly a voodoo priest!) He was also in several Mummy films and once played Moriarty. A good actor, really but a) one who never turned down an offer (setting a standard to which Christopher Walken and the like have since surpassed, it seems) and b) definitely not one who any average moviegoer at the time would recognize, and even now it prompted a "No, it couldn't be, could it? Wow, it is! Why???" So it's not impossible that this is something like that.
Still, I have hopes. It may not be a quick resolution, but for example, there are resoures now like Lantern Media History, containing thousands of old film, stage, and media magazines and newspapers, most of which are illustrated, from the early 1900s through about 1964. So I may stumble upon the answer accidentally when searching for something else, or browsing specific years. Keep toes crossed!
Breaking update: We might be nearing an answer! Best suggestion so far, and a very strong contender, Gene Raymond (a name which makes even me go "Who?") He was a second lead mainly, and after 1941, movies were few and far between (mostly because he'd joined up during WWII but wasn't drafted, so he chose to stay longer and by the time he got out, well, star had faded, studio system was changing, etc.)
Especially here. The hair part is almost a perfect match, coloring fits, the eyes and nose. Again, the best evidence would be finding that actual picture, but so far, this is at least a strong probability.
Still looking for an exact match, but I found a very persuasive 1932 photo (still working my way up; by now, based on Raymond's career timeline, if it is him, either late 30s, say 1938 or 1939, or postwar is more likely).
Take a look at the side by side and see what you think.
Hi! Did we know that Frank Langella is going to be in Muppets Most Wanted? The book and CD set came out early, and he's credited with being a minister. (I won't say more than that, in case you're trying to avoid spoilers.) I just wanted to let you know, in case you wanted to do the honors and make him a page. I only know him from playing William Paley in Good Night and Good Luck, which I highly recommend if you've never seen it.
I'm really glad they released this book and CD set a month early, to help generate interest in the movie. I thought it was really odd last time when they didn't put out the book and CD set until the video releases came out.
P.S. I would love to find out who David Jeremiah is, since he came back to narrate the new one. Have you ever seen his name before? I'm pretty sure he's not this guy!