Talk: Sesame Street Sketches

character sketches

I know some folks don't like mixing articles and subcategories in a category, but looking at this one, it occurs to me that the following categories should be moved to Category:Sesame Street Character Sketches...

Thoughts? —Scott (talk) 05:35, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

There was no response in over a week, so I went ahead and made the change. —Scott (talk) 05:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

So not fair asking this while I was away. You dork. But I agree; it works. :) -- Danny] (talk) 16:30, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Season Citations

Near the end of the time when we had pages for certain character sketches represented by season, we started putting in citation needed notes regarding the facts that those sketches were thought to be from the seasosn listed. And after changing the character sketch pages to themed sketches with those characters, we've had notes here saying "previously cited as (insert season here); pending sourced information". But is this neccessary now, since we no longer have the sketch pages grouped by season? We just put in the earliest known appearance, and we don't have pages for the seasons, so we aren't really saying that the sketches debuted in a particular season. What's more odd is that after we stopped having character sketch pages for each season, there have been many sketch descriptions added to these pages which have a "previously cited as season..." tage, though they were never previously cited (on Mupet Wiki, anyway) as being from any season. Anyway, I think we should probably eliminate these season citation tags. What do you think? --Minor muppetz 14:43, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Right now, those tags are just a placeholder to help us organize the the sketches that don't have EKAs. Those sketches need to be at the bottom of the page, and they might as well be in rough season order. It's better than nothing. -- Danny (talk) 15:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Attention: Orphaned images

These images were uploaded, but not used. They're all good shots and I'd like to use them, but I'm not familiar with the sketches they come from to place them in the appropriate article. So, I'm parking them here so they don't get lost in Special:Unusedimages. If anyone knows where they go, please use them accordingly. — Scott (talk) 05:25, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

The "ending" image is the closing scene from Episode 0001. It needs cropping and so forth before we replace the existing image on that page, though. Charlie and Louie thing was replaced, I forget on which page, sans the NDR mark. The Great Cookie Thief is a duplicate; the original image is here. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Cool, that brings the number of them down. Whatever's left can be used onthe appropriate page. — Scott (talk) 15:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

The first one was recently replaced by Image:CE9.JPG on the "If I Knew You Were Coming I'd've Baked a Cake" and "Ernie and Bert Songs pages. The page doesn't need two; the replacement is a bit sharper but I'm rather fond of the one here. One of them can be deleted, or one used on each page. -- Wendy (talk) 18:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I like the one that's on this page better, for what that's worth. -- Danny (talk) 19:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

For the images -

Adding - From "Cookie Monster Sketches Season 2". I am going to put that for Cookie Monster Songs.
BrokenWindow- Apart of Ernie and Bert Sketches somehow that sketch got removed. I readded that image there.
Counting Apples - I was playing around with Photoshop Elements 4.0, the contrast was dark. That can be deleted.
Ernie and R - I am adding that to Ernie and Bert Sketches. 22:28, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I added two more. — Scott (talk) 23:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The Ernie & Bert one was a duplicate; I deleted it. -- Danny (talk) 00:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Bringing attention to orphaned images this way isn't working. I'm goingto try something else. — Scott (talk) 22:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Muppet Wiki: for the record

It needs to be said that so many of these sketches are listed as having been from the wrong season. Or, just as likely, episode numbers aren't being cited for them to back up the initial thought to place them where they are. The notion of deciding what season a sketch came from by guessing that it was because Ernie's nose was a little rounder between 1977 and 1979 is not an acceptable method of accurate sketch placement. This has bugged me from the early days of the wiki, but it's also creating more work for those interested in accuracy. For example, if it's found that a sketch was in season 20 instead of season 19, then any links from other article pointing to that sketch have to be changed. I don't have a problem doing that, but not everyone remembers to do it.

From now on, any new recurring sketches added to a list should be placed in the appropriate unknown sketches page unless you have an episode number, or some other hard source to back up the claim. Hopefully this will decrease the amount of work that has to be done later when a verifiable source can be found for what season it appeared in. Feel free to post questions about this. — Scott (talk) 20:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course, I think that it's usually obvious if a sketch comes from the first season. Most of the main characters from the first season (with the main exception of Cookie Monster) were rebuilt or altered after the first year, so that would make it obvious. A first season skit would be obvious by Ernie's orange and purple stripepd shirt isntead of his red and blue striped shirt, Grover being green, Oscar the Grouch being orange, a dark white background (though this background was used in other seasons), and the presense of characters (or similar characters) besides Kermit the Frog who originated in earlier productions. Other seasons aren't as obvious, though I think the second season is the onyl one where Herry Monster has a blue nose. --Minor muppetz 05:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Those are all good examples of methods to use in tracking down what season a sketch comes from, but we shouldn't be using those principles to justify where we are going to state a particular sketch came from. If we say that the color of Ernie's shirt is a good enough source to place it in season one, then by that same rule, we're opening up the playing field for someone else to say that Ernie's hairline is a good enough indicator of when a sketch appeared. On the off chance that Ernie wore what is known to be his "season one shirt" in a sketch that was taped in season two (it's possible, I don't think anybody has seen all 141 episodes from season two), it's careless on our part to make that assessment. That sketch should only cite its earliest known appearance and not speculate otherwise. Anything else is just bad research. — Scott (talk) 05:12, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Even if we eventually see a season two episode where Ernie wore his original shirt, that wouldn't neccessarily mean that it was taped for that season. Season one Ernie sketches continued to be repeated in many episodes for many years. There could stil be ways to know, like if Ernie wore his original shirt and appeared with a season two character such as Herbert Birdsfoot. But what should we do if we don't know the original epsiodes, but do have a source for the original season? Sesame Street Unpaved lists the original air dates for many of the sketches shown, the bonus sketches in Old School Volume 1 are arranged by season, and the timeline sequence in The Street We Live On lists the years of the clips shown. Yes, there could have been mistakes, but at least they are official sources from Sesame Workshop. --Minor muppetz 16:08, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Michael, you're missing the point. The wiki is no place for speculation. We can guess all we want on the talk pages -- it's helpful and allows us to figure out how to approach a topic. But recording guesswork directly in the text of an article is in no way acceptable. If you have a source for when an episode first appeared, you can cite appropriately like this: [[Ernie and Bert Sketches: Season 25]]. If there's some other evidence about specific sketches that you think is worth mentioning, bring it up on a case by case basis on a talk page first. — Scott (talk) 17:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

For more on this discussion, see Talk:Ernie and Bert Sketches where these guidelines have been implemented. — Scott (talk) 17:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Would The Sesame Street Learning Kit books be considered a good enough source for listing certain sketches from the first season? Those books are from 1970, and I guess all of the sketches included in those books are from the first season (as far as I'm concerned they don't include stuff that happened after the first season, like sketches with the blue Grover or green Oscar the Grouch, and don't have post-season one characters like Herbert Birdsfoot, Herry Monster, or Sherlock Hemlock)? --Minor muppetz 23:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course! That's a great example of verifiable proof. — Scott (talk) 23:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Category

I think, collectively, it's worth taking a look at this category. Right now, it's a hodgepodge of articles, for recurring sketches and individual sketches, and some things, like "The Noodle Story" which aren't strictly television sketches at all, just audio skits. I also mention this since a lot of the one-time skit pages feature made up names, sketchy writing, or seem otherwise negligible. Grover and the Number Two is an example, but I just noticed Monsters Look at A, created by an anonymous user long ago. It's not an especially notable sketch, apart from being in the first season, and I incorporated most of that page's text onto Episode 0158 without breaking the table. I'm not arguing for mass deletions or anything, since some one-shot sketches, especially short films like Rollercoaster 1, 2, 3, are worth having as seperate pages, and if the sketch had an official name, like the explicit parodies of 24, Desperate Houseplants, etc., they could probably have their own pages. I'm a bit undecided about all of Guy Smiley's one-shot game shows, like Pick Your Pet, having their own pages. I don't want to force page merges, if the articles can stand well on their own; on the other hand, Sesame Street Game Shows could easily be reformatted, like Monsterpiece Theater, to better accomodate individual images and longer descriptions. We've already broken out Sesame Street Animated Segments, so I think it's worth just examining what people are putting in here, regardless of what we decide. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:35, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it is good to include a lot of one-shot Muppet sketches from the show in their own pages. However, if it is favored to have a rule for sketches in the Sesame Street sketches category to have one-shot sketches that are somehow noteworthy, I think that a sketch would be considered noteworthy enough to have its own page if it is a multi-part sketch (like Grover and the Number Two or Grover and the Rowboat) that wasn't part of a recurring sketch. Maybe, like Ernie and Bert Sketches and Sesame Street Kermit Sketches, we could include special sketch pages for major characters (like a Grover sketches page, or a Cookie Monster sketches page) that describe sketches starring those characters that don't belong in certain recurring sketches pages. I did that for the Sesame Street Kermit Sketches page, listing all Kermit the Frog sketches from Sesame Street that I knew of that didn't apply to Kermit's Lectures, Kermit at Home, Sesame Street News Flash, or other recurring sketches that featured Kermit (and linked to those, some one-shot Kermit sketches that had their own pages, and the individual Kermit song pages). --Minor muppetz 21:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd favor a Grover sketches page. Unless someone can transcribe it, really, Grover and the Number Two, as it stands, is a weak article, reliant on YouTube clips, one of which is defective. In general, and I realize I forgot to specify that, I think it would help to seperate the one-shots and recurring sketches, just as there's Category:Muppet Show Recurring Sketches and Category:Muppet Show Sketches for the one-offs. Then working from there, it would be clearer which one-shot articles need to be merged, deleted, or just expanded on. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:17, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I would love to see us start a Grover Sketches (similar to Ernie and Bert Sketches) - a season by season guide would be cool if we can get our act together (but at this point that may be hard) -- from Grover's Jobs, Farmer Grover, Grover and the Number Two, Grover and the Rowboat, First and Last, and other pages there is enough to get a good start on a big helping of Grover sketches. I also like the idea of splitting the one-time sketches and the recurring ones into two categories. -- Brad D. (talk) 21:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we can put together the following categories: Sesame Street Sketches (for sketches that don't fit in the following category proposals), Sesame Street Recurring Sketches (for all recurring sketches), Sesame Street Animated Segments (we already have this.... and I wonder if a Sesame Street Animated Recurring Sketches page should be in order), and Sesame Street Character Sketches (listing non-recurring sketches that starred the main characters, and minor characters who basically only appeared in their own sketches). --Minor muppetz 22:21, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

If it is decided that only notable one-shot sketches should get their own pages, I would think that sketches that got remade should get their own page, talking about the sketch and the remakes, perhaps explaining major differences. One good example is Near and Far. --Minor muppetz 22:39, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Repeated/remade sketches definitely deserve their own page. The problem I had with "Grover and the Number 2" is that, all told, it's 4 sentences, plus a note, and in general a messy, dull page. And someething like "Monsters Look at A" fit neatly into the episode guide. Basically, if everything worth saying about the sketch could be included in an episode guide slot, then unless it's turned into a transcript, where readers could clearly judge for themselves what's "notable" about the sketch, it probably doesn't deserve a page. This particularly applies to skits with made up names. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

It would be interesting to eventually have sketch guides to every major character, though it would be interesting to determine whether a character should have a guide that breaks up each individual season, like Ernie, Bert, and Grover, or to just list all sketches outside of recurring ones, like Kermit the Frog. Kermit was on the show for many years and has a lot of sketches, so Kermit could have his Sesame Street sketches listed by season, but then there are guide pages for Sesame Street News Flash, Kermit's Lectures, and Kermit at Home, or his appearances in the Muppet & Kid Moments. Without all those individual sketches, I don't really see it being neccessary to have them broken up by seasons (though Kermit's Lectures and Kermit at Home aren't the official titles and those pages could be deleted and those skits merged with a Kermit sketches page, but as most skits in those categories are similar, I think those situations deserve their own pages. Some characters, like Big Bird, Oscar the Grouch, and Mr. Snuffleupagus, have been major characters for years, but mainly just appear in the individual episodes, without too many skits that were repeated in other episodes. For their skits, they could have one-page guides (a Big Bird Sketches page could have a link to Journey to Ernie, and an Oscar Sketches page could have a link to Ask Oscar and Sneak Peek Previews). Season sketch guides would work for Count von Count, Cookie Monster, and maybe also Prairie Dawn and Herry Monster. I am feeling mixed about season sketch guides for Elmo, Telly Monster, Zoe, Rosita, and Baby Bear (and I can't think of too many stand-alone sketches off-hand that starred the last three characters). It would be interesting to see some season sketch pages for characters who weren't around during the first season, like The Count, who would have a page like"Count von Count Sketches: Season 4", but no "Count von Count Sketches: Season 1". --Minor muppetz 03:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

There. — Scott (talk) 01:47, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Me & My Llama

There was no mention of this sketch (that I could find) on this site, so I didn't know where exactly to post about this... I seem to remember a live-action Sesame sketch where this kid (a girl, I think) takes her pet llama to the dentist. And throughout this sketch a song is playing "Me and my llama, me and my llama, going to the dentist today..." Nobody I know remembers this skit...I'm starting to think it was a hallucination. I need somebody else to tell me this was actually on TV...this inquest is my last, best hope to validate my sanity. If nobody HERE remembers this sketch, then I'm going to outright accuse my mother of slipping funky drugs in my balogna sammies all those years ago!

Oh, and sorry if I posted this in a bad place (I am a rookie!!) -- User:San7799

No reason to do that--this clip DOES exist. Trust me. I don't see why it shouldn't be added to the list; other films are mentioned here. -- MuppetDude 13:16, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah that was my favorite skit on Sesame Street. I used to sing that song all the time. Glad to see there are other "Me and my Llama Going to the Dentist Today" enthusiasts. There is this girl I know, named Kate Anonymous, who wanted me to prove that this skit existed. Thanks for providing the proof, Muppet Wiki.

Here it is on YouTube. End of discussion. --MuppetVJ 00:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

It's also on Old School Volume 2. -- Ken (talk) 05:40, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Muppet Wiki

Talk: Sesame Street Sketches

Contents

character sketches

Season Citations

Attention: Orphaned images

See Also

Muppet Wiki: for the record

Category

Me & My Llama