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Redefining Category

Okay, after a pruning process, we're down to 10 keep articles, for now anyway (Bill Berner is still a bit iffy, but it's complete sentences, so what the hey). So following the Special:Community discussion, I propose to convert the current items into a Category:Miscellaneous Crew, with a note about inclusion, and turn this into an umbrella category ala Actors or Characters, to make it easier to track which crew categories we are including. And I'm pasting Danny's yes and no list, which I fully agree with.

Yes: Writer, Director, Executive Producer, Producer, Associate Producer, Designers and Creative Supervisors in the Muppet Workshop or Creature Shop, Art Director, Production Designer, Music Coordinator, Costume Designer, Original Music, Choreographer, Puppet Wrangler. Plus anybody from the "No" list if there's anything Muppet-relevant to say about them, like an overview of their career with the Muppets, or a quote.

No: Line Producer, Associate Director, Stage Manager, Video Editor, Audio, Production Coordinator, Hair and Makeup, Technical Director, Video Engineer, Camera Operator, Tape Operator, Electrician, Lighting Board Operator, Carpenter, Props, Set Decorator, Production Assistant, Production Intern, Accounting.

As always, there's the caveat if it makes for a really interesting page, but that requires the user to go the extra mile, with quotes, career details and biography, and/or images, not just list one or two credits for a caterer and expect that to enthrall on its own. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC) 05:08, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Page Assessment

Re the discussion at Special:Community, I think it's worth while looking at what articles are in this category, and which work and which don't. These are my own general assessments, mind, so everyone is free to disagree, but it gives us a general idea of what's currently housed in here in terms of scope, and also in terms of positions, if any new categories suggest themselves as better alternatives (I've already mentioned "Cinematographers" as a possible). Plus this section includes some rather stubby articles, so even for those which we keep, it's worth looking at ways to improve them. If anyone can turn any of these into decent articles, more power to them.

  • Bill Berner- occupation seems vague from here; says "lighting and costume direction," but only credits in our databse mention "lighting director." Brief article, stressing connections with non-Muppet shows. *Could* fit, but right now, needs work. Expand or Delete.
  • Frank Biondo- camera man; been on Seesame Street since day one, caricatured, been on Elmo's World. Keep, but images of either his caricature Muppet or his montage cameo, or both, would help, and this sentence needs expansion/verification if possible: "Biondo worked with Jim Henson on projects before Sesame as well." If they're known, they should be listed.
  • Steve Chadwick- production supervisor for the animated portions only of Dog City. While I'm fine with including the director of those segments, I don't think the production supervisor is relevant enough, and he's already included on the article page (whose credit list itself could use some trimming in the Nelvana section). Delete.
  • Fred Christie- engineer and mixer on one album, sole credit, not even a complete sentence. Definite delete.
  • David M. Clark- lighting director on two specials; two paragraphs, some fairly interesting non-Muppet background. Probable keep.
  • Robert J. Emerick- editing supervisor, associate director; credits list and one incomplete sentence about Emmy award. Probable delete, unless it can be built upon; like most of the others, his name's in the season by season credit lists anyway (which could also bear some examination, but that's another discussion)
  • Doug Epstein - recording engineer on two albums; not listed on any article except two connection lists for the DC Comics albums produced by Michael K. Frith. Delete, unless someone can expand it.
  • Frieda Lipp- production supervisor; no complete sentences, credits list. Delete.
  • Shawn Harkins- camera man on one video, not mentioned in any actual articles. Two sentences. Delete.
  • Michelle Hickey- Muppet wrangler; definite keep, but either keep only in "designers" or find a new category for Muppet wranglers/puppet co-ordinators. Picture from cameo would help too.
  • Richard Holloway- floor manager on Muppet Show; photograph, short career summary, appeared in documantary Of Muppets and Men. Keep.
  • Nigel Lythgoe- move to choreographers (found fifth season credits to confirm the previously unverified claim)
  • Dick Maitland]- sound effects man since Sesame season 1; picture, work on other Muppet specials, nice trivia note re son playing "Gabi". Keep.
  • Mitch Mayer- production manger for Sesame Street, credited on Season 35 article page only. Two sentence article. Delete.
  • Ralph Mensch- technical director; credits list, note of Emmy, no complete sentences. Probable delete.
  • Grisha Mynova- wardrobe supervisor. two complete sentences, one credit note. Delete.
  • Ted Nemeth- cinematographer on Time Piece; picture, Frank Oz quote, background. Keep, maybe move to cinematographer category.
  • Blake Norton- sound engineer for more than two decades of Sesame; Four sentences. Probable keep, but expand if possible.
  • Chet O'Brien- "production stage manager," cast member, picture and nice background. Definite keep (brother "Snooks" could probably have an article as well)
  • John Rook- lighting director on multiple productions. Four sentences. Possible keep.
  • Mike Shoskes- sound department since Sesame season 1, for about five years; four sentences. Possible keep.
  • Karen Specht- hairstylist; credits list and no complete sentences. Delete.
  • John R. Tierney- video editor. Two sentences. Delete.

Again, these are my assessments, but keeping in mind the Special:Community discussion, I think it will help us to formulate which "crew" pages work and which don't, and why. In general, I'd say unless you found some truly fascinating background and quotes and can make a great page about a hair dresser, don't make a page for them. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's been a week and no response. Not sure whether to move this list to Special:Community, in a "Yes" and "No" format, as Danny has done, or just start deleting. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Another week, so I'm going to just start deleting and cleaning up. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry -- I should have responded. I agree with everything. Do as you will. -- Danny (talk) 20:57, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

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